So if supply management issue will save Canada then why not?

[jazz]

It is a social program here. Keeps. Smaller operations
A float. People on farms making money.

well sawfly, thats nice and all. But nobody saved my home town in the 80s when world wheat oversupply cut prices by 2/3rd so forgive me if I find it hard to shed a tear. Thats life. We were told to either get bigger, lower costs or get out. And all 3 happened.

The cost profile for dairy production cant differ much between canada and the US except for the currency exchange. Maybe overpaying for quota license is the problem. Same as it was here when land prices skyrocketed in the 80s. Govt let that correct on its own.

Only one reason its protected - because Quebec. Thats all you need to know.

[captainDAVE]

We are far better off than before.
I kinda like getting paid in full for the grain I deliver

Except the mission $10 billion+ over the last 6 years

[GDR]

well sawfly, thats nice and all. But nobody saved my home town in the 80s when world wheat oversupply cut prices by 2/3rd so forgive me if I find it hard to shed a tear. Thats life. We were told to either get bigger, lower costs or get out. And all 3 happened.

The cost profile for dairy production cant differ much between canada and the US except for the currency exchange. Maybe overpaying for quota license is the problem. Same as it was here when land prices skyrocketed in the 80s. Govt let that correct on its own.

Only one reason its protected - because Quebec. Thats all you need to know.

Clearly you don't understand the SM system, livestock or economics.

Since you have a selfish tone think about the ramifications to yourself of what you are asking for, here are a couple to think about-

Quota bailout would cost billions of your tax dollars

Billions of dollars in farmers hands that would be taxable if not reinvested in land would skyrocket land prices

Dairy would struggle to compete and expose huge risk and cost to ag programs

Dairy farms are profitable now and are cash cows for government's by paying taxes

Obviously not all dairy would disappear in Canada but there are approx 960,000 dairy cows in Canada if it took 8 or 9 acres per cow to raise I'd guess that's 8000000+ acres that is not growing canola and wheat and it's fertile how is that gonna help grain prices and movement

Who knows on reality of stable milk supply but anyone who thinks it's gonna get cheaper when it's already cheaper than pop or juice or even lots of water is out to lunch

The list goes on and on!

[GDR]

Why not have the conservatives come out and say it should be gone to make a better deal for the rest of Canada?
Severalnon this forum chriticizing liberals for not bending on the issue of supply so why doesn't the conservatives come out and say this. It would then make it a non issue in the next election for either party if both support it or want it gone.

But as it is some of you expect the liberals to sacrifice it which obviously will cost major seats in Ontario yet won't commit the conservatives? This is coming from someone as it stands would vote conservative if election was today.

Politicians look at farmers in general as a bunch of complainers always looking for a handout, and supply management is self sufficient and profitable, the liability is not there, that is why no one wants to touch it!

And there are dairy cows all over the country not just Quebec as some seem to think, it's a population thing, Ontario and Quebec use more milk so there are more dairies in those areas. (Farm numbers are higher because dairies are smaller there than in the west also) In our area dairy farms everywhere.

[the big wheel]

Been struggling with this issue last few days. Points on both sides. But it honestly feels wrong to be cutting down a system in that sector that wouldn't the rest of us farmers strive to achieve?
Wouldn't us grain farmers prefer?

1Guaranteed market for what we produce
2guarantred price
3 know what amount we have to produce
4 we d know what our revenue was going to be always steady

It's somewhat different in grain because we cannot always achieve or control our yields both sometimes being under and then over using the same method because weather determines our fate more than anything.
I get a sense maybe we d like to throw them under the bus because things are so chaotic for us in the grain sector??
We have to fight
Not just the weather but big corporates raising our costs etc etc
No realistic support programs. Losing markets due to politics.
And as far as the Americans their subsidies extend into grains so hugely higher than ours do what legitimate reason do they have to take on supply management?
Have some of us associated supply management with the liberals and because we re upset with the liberals by association want both gone but yet it's a fact the conservatives don't want it gone or won't get rid of it either so how is that right?

Weird to feel guilty about taking negative about another farm sector having some features I sure wouldn't mind having in grain sector.

[grassfarmer]

Nothing to struggle about Big Wheel we have the best dairy system in the world - bar none. The only system that sustains family farms in profitable milk production and supplies milk to the consumer at or below the cost the New Zealand customer pays. NZ - the land of year round grass and cheap milk production costs.
The alternative would be for the consumer to pay twice for the milk - at the store and through their taxes first for compensation to dairy farmers and later for bail outs when the industry fails. You only have to look at the American dairy sector to see what failure looks like.
Absolutely no need to throw supply management under the bus to appease the American bully because their dairy system is a failure.

[bucket]

Because its a socialist marxist construct that has no place in a capitalist system. And its stupid to let a tiny fraction of the electorate wag the dog.

Not arguing but I have a question.....where s this so called capitalist system when the US announces 12 billion for trade distortion they created?

Western canadian farmers accept a price for their grain from the so called Capitalist system but dont get the extra capitalist adhoc payment like the american farmer...

It puts us at a disadvantage when individual farmers in canada are competing with the treasuries of countries like the US or Germany....

[furrowtickler]

Except the mission $10 billion+ over the last 6 years

Lol , not sure who you mission 10 billion

[binthere]

Security,safety,ample supply trumps capitalism.

[jazz]

So please name all the industries that should be supported? is it just ag? what about lumber, or oil, or potash?

Exactly what industries should we eliminate all competition and impose artificial pricing?

The US ag subsidy system isnt just a commodity support. Its a community support and its nation wide. It keeps rural areas going and the spin off of jobs in the local communities. US small towns rock compared to ours. Thats why middle of nowhere states have big populations.

Our SM system is localized in southern quebec mostly for votes.

If you guys support this kind of wealth distribution then you need to support it all the way. Every industry is entitled and watch as your govt goes even beyond that - Liberals gave $20B into overseas wealth distribution schemes.

Careful...

However, a case could be made for support of "critical" industries perhaps food and energy or something. I do believe that a nations sovereignty is directly tied to its independence. Getting your happy meals toys from china isnt critical, but I would not want my food coming from there.

[bucket]

So please name all the industries that should be supported? is it just ag? what about lumber, or oil, or potash?

Exactly what industries should we eliminate all competition and impose artificial pricing?

The US ag subsidy system isnt just a commodity support. Its a community support and its nation wide. It keeps rural areas going and the spin off of jobs in the local communities. US small towns rock compared to ours. Thats why middle of nowhere states have big populations.

Our SM system is localized in southern quebec mostly for votes.

If you guys support this kind of wealth distribution then you need to support it all the way. Every industry is entitled and watch as your govt goes even beyond that - Liberals gave $20B into overseas wealth distribution schemes.

Careful...

Royalty holidays for potash and oil are subsidies ....it allows the company to get the easy money before they pay a royalty on reduced production....and exactly who is cleaning up the mess left behind...

Remember when Brad Wall suggested money to clean up abandoned wells as a job creator when shit hit the fan?


But you are right the subsidies the US hands out is to keep communities viable and it works....but at the same time it reduces our revenue in western canada....because our grain is priced off the US markets before adding in subsidies.

[sawfly1]

I just thought it was very strange , where the American's were discussing the whole thing.
that some of even greatest right wing Trumpers were thinking the US should adopt
something similar . to supply management.
just to keep smaller dairy's in business .

in a lot of cases the corporations that process the milk and sell it , own the mega dairy's. too.
with oversupply , they will use the mega dairy milk first.
leaving the small guys with the crumbs .


maybe the Hutterites have cheap enough labor to compete ,
but it may even be tough for them.


quota should have never been a production expense in supply management here .
got too valuable , and now to pay it out ,

wow , it is great if you are wanting to sell your farm , in the near future
just what the Hutterites need is more money to buy land .

do we have goals or values we want to maintain as a country ?
or just every man for himself , no matter what the consequences .

questions like , if it is every man for himself, in everything
well there is more money
in condos built on the AG land in BC Frazier valley , than the food it grows ,
so you do pave it over.

and other questions like
what is happening with BSE , the milk producing hormone , legal in the states but not here.
does the US have to have separate herds , without the drug to ship milk here?
or will it be legal here ?

and what environmental costs , do 20,000 cow dairy's have .
VS smaller herds spread around .

then to staff them with no local people .

is it right to bring in foreign workers , give them no benefits and send them home
when they are used up. with no health care or pension,
( I am not sure exactly how that works ,so I am just guessing , that is probably the case )