Renting land, how and why?

[farmaholic]

We can't be too far away from each other.....same thing here...

My neighbor says guys my size are dinosaurs ...we are done ....just haven't realized it yet....

....well then, I'm still swimming in the primordial ooze!!!

[MBgrower]

AlbertaFarmer5, u asked how to keep in the loop for land rental? well u need to be like my neigbours, get the municipal township maps, find out who owns what, identify small operators, old owners, etc, then track them down. u call them visit them at least every two months, and pester them about the land. each time u visit them u increase your rental rate by 5/acre. I own most of what i farm, but i do have some nice rental land that ive had for 20 plus years, and i have a couple asshole neighbours that are always after it. its a real shitshow , lots of greed in these parts.

[Sheepwheat]

AlbertaFarmer5, u asked how to keep in the loop for land rental? well u need to be like my neigbours, get the municipal township maps, find out who owns what, identify small operators, old owners, etc, then track them down. u call them visit them at least every two months, and pester them about the land. each time u visit them u increase your rental rate by 5/acre. I own most of what i farm, but i do have some nice rental land that ive had for 20 plus years, and i have a couple asshole neighbours that are always after it. its a real shitshow , lots of greed in these parts.

Accurate post. Generally, if you want in the game that badly, you need to be one of those types. Death beds are not too late. But for goodness sakes, always offer ten or twenty per cent more than the highest offer they have had. Then you can be successful and big.

Land and more money, and more iron. All that matters in life. I would suggest finding out anyone who has cancer, dementia, or has small older equipment. Those are the types who are for sure quitting, it is obvious. Get out there after them. And if you hear that someone has let go of some land, make sure to talk to their other landlords, and let them know their renter is shutting down, or can’t pay. Lie if you need to. It is simply cutting edge business. One of the most effective things to do, is to spread lies about the small guys. Make sure land owners know they cant handle more, that they struggle to pay, that you heard they are quitting. Strategic elevator visits, hospital visits and on farm visits are needed. Be strong. Offer more. Knock on doors. Lie. Doctor the truth.

Then you will be successful, and get more of the things that make you more of of a man. Land, machinery.

It is all that matters. Get out there!

Do not be generous towards those in need. Do not sponsor children in other countries, and for sure do not share your fortune with less fortunate. That is just stupid, and is not what matters in life.

[furrowtickler]

Accurate post. Generally, if you want in the game that badly, you need to be one of those types. Death beds are not too late. But for goodness sakes, always offer ten or twenty per cent more than the highest offer they have had. Then you can be successful and big.

Land and more money, and more iron. All that matters in life. I would suggest finding out anyone who has cancer, dementia, or has small older equipment. Those are the types who are for sure quitting, it is obvious. Get out there after them. And if you hear that someone has let go of some land, make sure to talk to their other landlords, and let them know their renter is shutting down, or can’t pay. Lie if you need to. It is simply cutting edge business. One of the most effective things to do, is to spread lies about the small guys. Make sure land owners know they cant handle more, that they struggle to pay, that you heard they are quitting. Strategic elevator visits, hospital visits and on farm visits are needed. Be strong. Offer more. Knock on doors. Lie. Doctor the truth.

Then you will be successful, and get more of the things that make you more of of a man. Land, machinery.

It is all that matters. Get out there!

Do not be generous towards those in need. Do not sponsor children in other countries, and for sure do not share your fortune with less fortunate. That is just stupid, and is not what matters in life.

Well unfortunately you both are quite accurate. Some will even go out of their way not to support local fellow family farms and buy from other parts of the province for fear of the illusion that the neighbors getting ahead . It’s quite sad actually. But ego and greed drives a lot of human nature. Seems to sort itself out though over time .

[ajl]

Another strategy is to offer big rent and then don't pay. Guy got to farm land for one year around here and then abandoned it in year 2 paying not on dime in rent over the 2 year deal. Heard it from the land owner himself so not hearsay.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Judging by the responses, I guess I should have added the following details:

Not trying to steal rented acres from neighbors, just to be given an opportunity when something does come up,

Not planning to be a crook and not pay

No intentions of being a BTO, but not happy to have a BTO from 100 km away renting in my backyard either( with Clubroot)

[Sheepwheat]

Judging by the responses, I guess I should have added the following details:

Not trying to steal rented acres from neighbors, just to be given an opportunity when something does come up,

Not planning to be a crook and not pay

No intentions of being a BTO, but not happy to have a BTO from 100 km away renting in my backyard either( with Clubroot)

In that case, good luck, you will need all you cane get. I have farmed 27 years, and in that time, have only added a bit of rented land, most of which was usurped by big guys sneaking around behind me. Have one quarter I rent from a very gracious and kind couple. I had put an add in the paper out of sheer desperation. Only land I was able to buy, was land that was offered for tender by a government agency that was on my doorstep. So I bid high. Other than that, I quit even trying to compete. Between deep pocketed neighbors, and cutthroat practicies, I gave up. Losing my dad young certainly was not helpful, as I may as well have moved here from another country. He knew everyone. I do not.

This problem is exactly why I decided to do farming differently. For us, it is our only hope to make a living farming on small acres. Or go organic maybe. We farm in similar regions. Tough to farm due to tight seasons, etc.

Best thing I ever did was look at things differently. Wish I had 20 years ago. Instead of wishing and trying to get more land, I could have had a flock making me a living ten years ago...

[Taiga]

Just get an off farm job, almost guarantee you can make more money, and then the land you do have to farm will most certainly feel like too much to get done.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Just get an off farm job, almost guarantee you can make more money, and then the land you do have to farm will most certainly feel like too much to get done.

Actually, recently mostly gave up on the lucrative off farm job, farming is much more profitable, going to work was costing me money most days. Part of the reason why we would like to keep expanding, much more time available now. We have our expenses well under control, so in spite of challenging years such as this, the farm is still profitable.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

You have had everything imaginable!
Question I have is why would want to take on more stress? Sounds like you farm in a challenging area, having more to me would just add to the stress. Personally when I look at commodity prices, and rising costs of everything the enthusiasm to rent someone else’s land, fix it up only to have someone else say thank you for all your hard work isn’t worth it anymore. Margins have got to be so small only ones making anything are the landlords. Farm what you have improve your own operation you will see long term benefits doing this.
Just my thoughts anyway!!

That was partly the point of my post, looks like many missed it. Nearly all land around here has lots of potential, but needs a lot of money and work to make it to that potential. If I buy it, I happily invest in improvements, I have the equipment, technology, and amendments required, and those improvements offer the best ROI on the farm, and they continue forever. But there are other fixed costs that would be good to spread over more acres. Our margins are actually very good, thanks to having our expenses well under control, and not being forced into poor marketing decisions.


And, yes it has been a challenging year, but nothing exceptional, just different. On a positive note, we seeded every acre, and none flooded out, which is typically our biggest challenge, the September hail damage is very minor, and that is typically our 2nd biggest challenge. We did have lots of flower blast on canola, which is unheard of, and lighter ground ( rented of course) is very disappointing. Fall is far from over, and this is still early for us. Frost this time of year is about normal, and snow not too surprising. These are likely some of the reasons why we don't have 10,000+ acre farmers around here.

[Oliver88]

It sounds like everything is leading to you buying adjacent land to land you currently own.

What would your payments be per acre vs rent?

If anywhere comparable I would definitely buy.

[MBgrower]

Judging by the responses, I guess I should have added the following details:

Not trying to steal rented acres from neighbors, just to be given an opportunity when something does come up,

Not planning to be a crook and not pay

No intentions of being a BTO, but not happy to have a BTO from 100 km away renting in my backyard either( with Clubroot)

the only way to get rented land here is to steal it. Then you go to church each Sunday to prove what an outstanding person you are. The day i decide to pull the plug and rent it out, it will go to the biggest bto asshole from a neighouring municipality, or better yet, to the hutts.

[Richard5]

After an early frost, a challenging fall 2 years ago you would think guys would farm within their means.

Went for a drive to visit friends in PA this week. Went up through Dafoe, Watson, Melfort etc. There is field upon field in a row between Watson and Spalding frozen to what i am assuming nothing left. If you can’t get seeding done on time this spring you have way too much land.

But with financing easily obtained and crooked companies like Input Capital and Calidon, anyone can farm big. And now Gormley is heard daily bragging up Input Capital Mtg streams so land will be sold again this fall without problems.

Their will be a day of reckoning soon. Very soon!

[Crestliner]

After an early frost, a challenging fall 2 years ago you would think guys would farm within their means.

Went for a drive to visit friends in PA this week. Went up through Dafoe, Watson, Melfort etc. There is field upon field in a row between Watson and Spalding frozen to what i am assuming nothing left. If you can’t get seeding done on time this spring you have way too much land.

But with financing easily obtained and crooked companies like Input Capital and Calidon, anyone can farm big. And now Gormley is heard daily bragging up Input Capital Mtg streams so land will be sold again this fall without problems.

Their will be a day of reckoning soon. Very soon!

Richard5....we all know the story about Input...what is the story on Calidon, I’ve only heard good things but then I live under a rock for most of my life.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

It sounds like everything is leading to you buying adjacent land to land you currently own.

What would your payments be per acre vs rent?

If anywhere comparable I would definitely buy.

If anything adjacent was for sale, or likely to come up for sale, I wouldn't hesitate, but that is not the case.

Rent is lower around here. $45 to $60 being quite common, some even lower yet. Probably cheaper than any other area with yields as high as ours. We can yield with the best anywhere, but crop choices are limited, quality not guaranteed, and have more challenges to get it in and off than nearly anyone.

If I put 25% down at $2700 per acre, payments would be close to $120 per acre. Unfortunately, prices are closer to $4000 per acre for good farmland. I did buy one cheaper than $2700 this spring, but it will take a lot of work to get it all into production.

So, $60 per acre extra per year to own vs. rent, at best. On one hand, that is only 6 bushels of canola, a few improvements can easily net 6 extra bushels, those improvements couldn't feasibly be done on rented land.

On the other hand prices, and or yields or both could easily drop significantly from here, and it is much easier to renegotiate rent, or let it go, than it is for owned land.