Are BTO’s Causing Problems?

[sumdumguy]

Topic of coffee shop conversation: Consensus-

1. BTO’s raised the land rents and price for ground - young locals are shut-out of land market.
2. BTO’s operate on borrowed money so payment pressure causes commodity dumping.
3. Dumping culminates in reduced returns for others.
4. BTO’s swallow up local smaller farmers, they move away and small communities suffer.
5. Neighbour interaction is non-existent. Remember the days of neighbours helping each other?

The forum is open - the can of worms is open.

[jazz]

#3 this


I will add another. BTOs court exponential risk without understanding it and risk massive flameout. Evidence Ritchie Bros catalog.

[SASKFARMER3]

I agree most wana be BTOs run on borrowed money lots of guys hero is the local high debt BTO instead of the guy who has built something slow and steady.

Input vigra is a problem

Interesting times

Snow just about gone and maybe if we miss Tomorrow’s rain we’ll fire up by Saturday

[BreadWinner]

1 BTOs pay what land is worth, happy landlord!!!
2 BTOs forward contract for cash flow, elevators can plan better!!!
3 BTOs hire lots of local people and keep small towns going!!
4 BTOs spend lots of money on new equip and parts, keep local dealers in buisness!
5 BTOs are smarter and richer than you so stop being envious!!!!
I am not a BTO but if I was I would tell you mind your own buisness!!!
OH Yes and your most likely a lefty NDPer if you hate BTOs!!!
LOL!!!!

[Braveheart]

If you compare yourself to others you may become vain or bitter.

[foragefarmer]

Keep on rocking in the free world! All the free marketer's crying that other guys are getting to big!


Especially SK3 who I guess is just a wannabe, and therefore is continually running the BTO's down!


If they survive good for them if they fail it's to bad for them!

[ajl]

The problem never was the BTO or colonies themselves. The BIG problem has and continues to be government printing money which enabled bad, ego driven, expansion decisions. Had interest rates stayed higher the last decade as they would have been without printing (quantitative easing and other such programs) farm expansion would have proceeded at a much more sensible pace with more players involved. That is the scenario I would have preferred but in did not and will not happen now.

[WiltonRanch]

The problem never was the BTO or colonies themselves. The BIG problem has and continues to be government printing money which enabled bad, ego driven, expansion decisions. Had interest rates stayed higher the last decade as they would have been without printing (quantitative easing and other such programs) farm expansion would have proceeded at a much more sensible pace with more players involved. That is the scenario I would have preferred but in did not and will not happen now.

What will happen if they lose control of interest rates?

[bigzee]

Define a BTO!! To me it’s anyone bigger than yourself.

[SASKFARMER3]

Read my post I’m the last to be jealous of local BTOs.

I get a kick out of how they farm.

Time will tell but I bet most aren’t that rich like some on here think.

[bucket]

1 BTOs pay what land is worth, happy landlord!!!
2 BTOs forward contract for cash flow, elevators can plan better!!!
3 BTOs hire lots of local people and keep small towns going!!
4 BTOs spend lots of money on new equip and parts, keep local dealers in buisness!
5 BTOs are smarter and richer than you so stop being envious!!!!
I am not a BTO but if I was I would tell you mind your own buisness!!!
OH Yes and your most likely a lefty NDPer if you hate BTOs!!!
LOL!!!!

I will mind my own business when some off these guys start minding theirs....no write downs only to retry a few years later ...better yet how about they pay their own way...or not pestering my landlords with bigger offers that turn out to be less when they tell them its on a seeded acre not 160 acres...good trick and many fall for it...

I have watched an irrigation project be funded by the government both on the capital side and the operating side of things with guys saying they can't afford the costs and yet somehow they can have a 5 million dollar line of equipment.... sat in the meeting when they choked when the guys said operating costs were going to be close to 125 an acre soon

Yes BTOs are really shaping up a healthy industry....I would rather have 5 -4000 acre guys than one 20000 acre farm with a bunch of transient workers....that isn't community building...

[grassfarmer]

Define a BTO!!

That would be a good starting point. Is it judged on # acres farmed, # of tractors, amount of money made, # of holidays taken or just the biggest ego?
I don't consider 4-5000 acre operations small or even average 1 family farms. Yet it seems there are plenty in this category where the wife works off farm to supplement the income while other families don't need off-farm income to make a living off a half section. I'm obviously talking different farm types not just pure commodity grain farms.

[ajl]

What will happen if they lose control of interest rates?

Interest rates should be set in the marketplace with multiple parties buying and selling rather than by a quasi government agency like a central bank. The sole purpose of a central bank is to suppress rates by printing money. They print as much as they can without igniting hyper inflation. But inflation is hard to measure so this can't be done with precision. We see that with different inflation rates in the economy. Farm machinery parts +25% per annum. Now if the B of C was closed tomorrow, rates would likely rise 2-3% which of course would finish Canuckistan off by noon tomorrow since it is entirely dependent on being propped up by cheap debt. Something new would emerge from the ashes though eventually.

[fjlip]

Agree, stuck in low interest rates or the whole house of card comes down! Good friend at 8000 acres admitted "it is crazy stressful to farm that much" , unhealthy, busy as hell, risky as hell. So only some can handle the BTO lifestyle. Others won't live long doing it. Lots of estate/divorce/bank auctions in future. We had many HUGE operations over the years in this area, none lasted for one reason or another.

"If you compare yourself to others you may become vain or bitter."... real accurate, or "be happy with less" even better, "how much is enough?" Get the same plot/hole in the end...think

[countryguy]

Topic of coffee shop conversation: Consensus-

1. BTO’s raised the land rents and price for ground - young locals are shut-out of land market.
2. BTO’s operate on borrowed money so payment pressure causes commodity dumping.
3. Dumping culminates in reduced returns for others.
4. BTO’s swallow up local smaller farmers, they move away and small communities suffer.
5. Neighbour interaction is non-existent. Remember the days of neighbours helping each other?

The forum is open - the can of worms is open.

I will strongly agree with #3 but its not just the BTO that is guilty of it. Plenty of small farms around too that have a bunch of wants around that aren't necessarily needed but have to be paid for. There is competitiveness between all sizes of farms.