Are BTO’s Causing Problems?

[furrowtickler]

BTO’s or not , everything has been pushed to unsustainable levels for risk management now for many reasons. Case in point look at what’s happened now ..... it has been unsustainable for a few years , lucky dry harvests and decent yields lately have made it barely doable .
Add in high moisture grain , big grade losses / discounts , very high drying costs , high land rents , input costs rising .... it’s going to be a train wreck sooner than later . No single thing to point blame at , its a combination of several things at once with Mother Nature cutting the last string for some . And a lot of hurt for many .

[hobbyfrmr]

If you compare yourself to others you may become vain or bitter.

Agreed.

[farmaholic]

If you compare yourself to others you may become vain or bitter.

....or both.

Every one should do what they want...don't judge me for being a Sandbox(play) farmer from the Slum of the Ghetto, even if you do, I won't judge your choice. Not everyone is cut out to be either a small or large farm operator/manager. To each their own.

I won't begrudge anyone their success but sure as hell won't mourn their failure either.

I will do the best I can to chew what I have bitten off. But if someone never gets enough and needs to be "rescued", I'm not chewing what someone else bit off. The worst is the guy who does get rescued then takes on more thinking "HE" got done...over and over again.

There are some very well managed and run BTO operations out there. When they succeed they deserve it.

What's stopping anyone from taking the plunge?

"Most" days I'm satisfied waking up knowing that day all I'll ever be is the Sandbox Farmer from the Slum of the Ghetto.

[Oliver88]

I will mind my own business when some off these guys start minding theirs....no write downs only to retry a few years later ...

Solid points made by all comments so far.
As bucket noted, it seems the root cause for a lot of past problems in Saskatchewan Ag is weak bankruptcy laws/write downs/Land Bank, etc.

Not necessarily by only BTO’s though....

[Saskpraireboy]

I agree with the comments that there is some very good big operators around. Everyone is free to have a go at joining them if they think they can handle it . After working 30 years both farming and working a fairly high stress city job I decided that one of them would have to go.

Rented out to the local 60,000 acres guy. Three years ago.
Why would I do that many of you would ask, what about the little guy ? Or the young guy , give it to them.

Well I guess there is a few reasons first one being that I have watched this operation grow for 20 plus years. They do a very good job of farming and farm rented land as good or better than the dirt they own. I like that. Can't say the same for some other operations who want to bale straw on only the land they rent or the rented dirt gets sprayed last If difficult conditions persist.

Top rate paid on the first call. I didn't feel like shopping my dirt around to multiple farms and haggling or bargaining on cash rent. I knew I would get as good or more than fair market value on one phone call. I liked that . Yes I called them.

Things always done on time. For such a big farm they are always one of the first done seeding , harvesting spraying ect in this area. Since they started to grow big 20 years ago they have been able to stay ahead of the curve and continue to get things done on time . I like that.


Clean fields, nice crops grown . I like that

Rent is paid exactly on time. Hand delivered with a small thank you note .I like that.

The main operators are late thirties or so and continue to operate equipment in the field as needed so I don't see them going anywhere any time soon. They have skin in the game and work extremely long hours. in the busy seasons . Like the hard work and there defiantly seems to be pride there.

So really , why not rent to them . I don't owe anything to anyone . Top rent, and my land gets farmed very well.

[furrowtickler]

I agree with the comments that there is some very good big operators around. Everyone is free to have a go at joining them if they think they can handle it . After working 30 years both farming and working a fairly high stress city job I decided that one of them would have to go.

Rented out to the local 60,000 acres guy. Three years ago.
Why would I do that many of you would ask, what about the little guy ? Or the young guy , give it to them.

Well I guess there is a few reasons first one being that I have watched this operation grow for 20 plus years. They do a very good job of farming and farm rented land as good or better than the dirt they own. I like that. Can't say the same for some other operations who want to bale straw on only the land they rent or the rented dirt gets sprayed last If difficult conditions persist.

Top rate paid on the first call. I didn't feel like shopping my dirt around to multiple farms and haggling or bargaining on cash rent. I knew I would get as good or more than fair market value on one phone call. I liked that . Yes I called them.

Things always done on time. For such a big farm they are always one of the first done seeding , harvesting spraying ect in this area. Since they started to grow big 20 years ago they have been able to stay ahead of the curve and continue to get things done on time . I like that.


Clean fields, nice crops grown . I like that

Rent is paid exactly on time. Hand delivered with a small thank you note .I like that.

The main operators are late thirties or so and continue to operate equipment in the field as needed so I don't see them going anywhere any time soon. They have skin in the game and work extremely long hours. in the busy seasons . Like the hard work and there defiantly seems to be pride there.

So really , why not rent to them . I don't owe anything to anyone . Top rent, and my land gets farmed very well.

Lol , well I hope it all continues to go awesome for you lol . Yup guys have never been stuffed in bad times lol
Hope the best for you 👍
It’s happened here , more than once by the biggest and bestest of em lol

[furrowtickler]

Most of us have pride and hard work and education, Mother Nature will dictate after that . Even the best of the best get hit by a train 🚂 once in a while , hopefully that don’t happen for you .

[farmaholic]

Rent er all to Babich !

They ll Farm it all !

Can you imagine the critical mass and momentum a successful farm like that has? But I'd hate to be around if things go bad👎.

[farmaholic]

The bto could be a problem if he offers 500,000 a quarter and the Farmers kid had expectations of buying it for 60,000 over time !

Just sayin !

Strange things happen when it comes to Land !

At what point does continually getting bigger become just an obsession, or an "I'll show you"(competition) attitude or as much as I hate using this word, just plain "greed".

I sometimes look at how many people BTO farms are directly supporting and think everything is relative, to a degree.

Today, I wouldn't trade my farms financial status and size for some of the highly leveraged large acreage farm operations. I'm not saying we couldn't handle afew more acres and wouldn't buy them if the right ones came up for sale but for now I'm satisfied.

I find some people's goals also depends on the company they keep...or what the in-laws are doing. lol.

[SASKFARMER3]

As times get tougher the Farms have to expand to keep the bills being paid.

Most on here think the BTO's are flush with Cash.

Yea delivers every single bushel of One crop in fall and another crop over winter its all about being one step ahead of the devil.

Read about BTO'S in the USA, in the end, every single one of them was worth like 5 Cents.

You honestly think some of the Sask BTO'S is worth anything near 5Cents.

[farmaholic]

For some people all that matters is that others see their money(or what their credit will buy...lol), maybe it's the money that can't be seen that really matters.

Not everything looks as it appears.

[hobbyfrmr]

As times get tougher the Farms have to expand to keep the bills being paid.

Most on here think the BTO's are flush with Cash.

Yea delivers every single bushel of One crop in fall and another crop over winter its all about being one step ahead of the devil.

Read about BTO'S in the USA, in the end, every single one of them was worth like 5 Cents.

You honestly think some of the Sask BTO'S is worth anything near 5Cents.

Of course they are worth millions. They were buying farmland when everyone else was looking for the door. $150,000/ quarter. They rent a lot of land but they also buy land whenever possible. Those properties are now paid for and worth $325,000-500,000. Long term after all the dust settles, the person stops farming pays everything down and still owns 20-100 quarters they can rent out or sell upon retirement. Exponential growth has been working successfully here for 35 years.
I dont understand why farmers think the more ambitious farmers are broke, or going to be broke. They understand what they are doing. Diversified investments, real estate, multiple houses in small towns, lake cabins, winter vacation properties, custom aerial application businesses, and blocks of more farmland in other areas of the province.
It is still the same underlying farm theme for the last 45 years. Cash poor, asset rich. It all depends on what they did with the cash flowing in the timeline.

[farmaholic]

Very true hobby, I am on record as saying I never made my capital work harder for me. The other thing is listening to the nay sayers...."land is too much money"...(that has to be one of the most hypocritical statements I've made in a long long time.... in my opinion!!) No really, I wish I would have stuck my neck out further in the past, in the past some locals thought the dirt was too expensive, but is it now?

[SASKFARMER3]

Hobby here is a lesson.

Most BTO'S in Sask was little piss ants a few years ago.

They bought yes on the way up but most was at 250000 or higher.

You still have to make those payments.

But here in More to the Story.

BMO and Scotia Bank like BTO'S.

Do research and you will discover that.

These two take the Assets and do a blanket loan of say a guy bought 50 quarters and paid 200000 average He has $10,000,000.00 mil he has a mortgage on the land is now worth because of buying up extra say 500000 a quarter or 20 mil the equity in the land that they all believe is real is 10 mil of which the Bank will give 60% loan like any city guy on an overvalued home.

6 mill to work with.

Now the BTO has to increase the farm so they use the 6 mil to add extra land at today's price or higher.

Keep the game going same as house market in Vancouver or Toronto.

Up and up each year reevaluate and up the 60% guarantee.

But the only problem with the Ponzi scheme is what if land drops.

Boom the BTo is done and RB auctions here we come.

Phone people in Toronto or Vancouver and tell me after talking to them about how well the housing boom has done.

Regina, there are lots who owe more than the home is worth.

But it can't happen with Ag land.

It's a joke.

Not jeleous one bit, watched this game in the 80s and wow its happening again.

Ah farming

[bucket]

The reality is some of these guys were allowed massive writedowns and are going to do it again.....

The problem is there were many guys that could afford the land for the amount most of these BTOs will end up actually paying for the land....

The best strategy is to leave standing offers to the lending companies for the land you want...keeps everyone honest