Seed royalty

[RD414]

Thanks for the info Jag, how did you make out with the combine?

[Jagfarms]

Got the combine back have not had to use it since we got it back and did not have to use the loaner when ours was in the shop. Engine blew September 11 and only did 500 acres of canola since then and we did that with our second combine none of the other crops were ready.

The bill for the engine job was $104,000 not including the trucking.

We payed about 30% of the invoice so far and waiting to hear back from Case. We will have to pay some more of the invoice but hoping case puts some $ in.

[wd9]

RR patent for canola comes off 2021. How do we as farmers get op RR canola in our fields?

I could take the few bushels hit no problem.

[Quadtrack]

Here is my opinion as a seed grower.

I do not agree with the de-registration of some of the older varieties if the buyers still want to buy the varieties.

We were growing 46A76 Canola on our farm and cleaning it and seeding it until it became de-registared. Our seed cost was about $1.25 per acre. It yielded about 5 bushel acre less than the newer varieties but it took a lot of the risk out of growing canola. Some times it even yielded similar to newer varieties. Now that it is de-registared we don't have that option.

I don't think hybrid cereals will be a good thing for farmers and would be much the same as the canola model. At this time i don't think there is a big enough yield advantage for hybrid wheat or durum to make it feasible but there is with Rye at this time.


I have been growing pedigreed seed for a short time only around 12 years or so. Any farmer can become a seed grower if they want to. Just get a copy of circular 6 is online and it has all the rules and guidelines there.
As a seed grower you have lots of extra costs involved to produce seed. You have to pay fees to the canadian seed institute for every field and acre of seed you produce. You have to pay a crop inspector to come and inspect your pedigreed crops. Extra work of cleaning all farm equipment, isolations strips between fields.
To grow seed for different companies you have to become a shareholder of the company you want to grow seed for. Average price to become a shareholder of a seed company is around $20,000. Lots of seed growers are shareholders of several seed companies so you can have $60,000 been paid out to different seed companies before you can even grow seed for them. When we sell seed we pay royalties on the seed we sell back to the seed companies. Royalties can be anywhere from $1.50 to $2 plus per bushel on the seed that we sell.

When a seed grower wants to produce certified seed they have to purchase seed of a higher pedigreed to produce the certified seed. If certified seed is $12 higher pedigreed seed of the same variety could be $20 plus per bushel. The higher the pedigreed the higher the price is for seed.

If you get some breeder seed for plot or small field production you can be paying $600 bushel for the seed.

Then you have to build a seed cleaning plant or pay someone to clean your pedigreed seed. The standards that pedigreed seed has to be cleaned to you will have to pay more to have your seed cleaned as the standards for certified seed are a lot higher than common seed. If you clean the seed yourself you need a seed plant which now a days would cost approximately $1,000,000 to build a average sized seed plant with a scale. If you want to put in a colour sorter add another $600,000 to the price. When you clean pedigreed seed you have to clean it a lot slower than common seed to meet the standards. Sometimes you may have to clean it 2 or 3x to get it to pedigreed standards.

Lots of different seed companies out there now and they all have few varieties of different crop types. There is lots of varieties that don't even get registered.

If a seed grower does not get at least a $5 premium for pedigreed seed over the market price it is not worth the extra cost of producing the seed.

There is quite a bit of brown bagging of seed sales going on. When its large volumes being sold it hurts all of the seed industry as the royalties are not going back to the seed companies and to plant breeding. Its unfair as the farmers selling brown bagged seed don't have all the extra costs involved that a seed grower has.

Before I was seed grower I did not realize all that is involved and the extra costs and work involved.

So if anyone thinks seed growers have it made look up circular 6 and get your application in. You can be growing pedigreed seed on your farm in 2019.

Good post Jag. I’m not a seed grower in part because all the extra work involved is huge. I hope you make enough extra to compensate for it all. I buy seed from Ardell at Vanscoy which is a long established, excellent operation that has millions invested in the seed plant alone. Hard workers and meticulous with the product the produce and sell.
All the bitching about pulse varieties-stop growing pulses if it’s so bad!! We have had access to new varieties for 25 years with no royalty cost. The total levy in SK would average under $3/Ac and the portion spent on beeeding has given powdery mildew resistant peas, aschochyta resistant lentil. Just try growing an old variety and see how you fare. There would be no pulse industry without the grower investment period. Should growers pay for it all and then some, like canola? No because there is a public economy benefit too. Should grows pay some of the cost? Yes, exactly how the pulse model has operated.

[farming101]

RR patent for canola comes off 2021. How do we as farmers get op RR canola in our fields?

I could take the few bushels hit no problem.

I think it's there already...

[wd9]

I think it's there already...

But you signed a contract saying you won't grow the progeny from it.

[ColevilleH2S]

RR patent for canola comes off 2021. How do we as farmers get op RR canola in our fields?

I could take the few bushels hit no problem.

The heck with RR, when does the LL trait come off Canadian patent, and who will breed the OP seed?

[farming101]

But you signed a contract saying you won't grow the progeny from it.

Yes, true.
I don't know how it will go.
Might be more than a few bushels
https://www.canolawatch.org/2018/03/02/op-canola-varieties-mcga-study-and-46a76-update/ https://www.canolawatch.org/2018/03/02/op-canola-varieties-mcga-study-and-46a76-update/

[Guest]

Jag, thanks for the insight into. pedigreed seed
what caused the motor to go ?
is that common ? why so much ?

[Jagfarms]

Jag, thanks for the insight into. pedigreed seed
what caused the motor to go ?
is that common ? why so much ?

Not sure what caused the motor to go
Was on 2014 Case 8230 with 1685 engine hours
Was not tuned and had no issues with it before
According to computer oil pressure and temperature everything was normal until motor blew up
Number one cylinder closest to the rad the piston exploded and rod came out both sides of the block.
Damaged air conditioner compressor, engine fan and other things when it happened

Drop in Iveco Engine is $87,000 alone came with new turbo and fuel system then fan , air conditioner and other parts and labour added up to $104,000
I guess it is a common problem with some 8230 combines as I have heard of some more with the same issues

[Guest]

Not sure what caused the motor to go
Was on 2014 Case 8230 with 1685 engine hours
Was not tuned and had no issues with it before
According to computer oil pressure and temperature everything was normal until motor blew up
Number one cylinder closest to the rad the piston exploded and rod came out both sides of the block.
Damaged air conditioner compressor, engine fan and other things when it happened

Drop in Iveco Engine is $87,000 alone came with new turbo and fuel system then fan , air conditioner and other parts and labour added up to $104,000
I guess it is a common problem with some 8230 combines as I have heard of some more with the same issues

Hope our 8120 doesn't have same problem ?

[Jagfarms]

Hope our 8120 doesn't have same problem ?

Sure surprised me when it happened
Adding extended warranty to our tractor now