A timely article

[hobbyfrmr]

Not one "old school" organic farmer prospered here, not one. They all quit.

It has to be more to it than not spending any money producing a crop. And in my opinion you had to be a good "conventional" farmer to succeed as an organic farmer.

Notice I emphasised "old school". Things have changed.

All I ever heard from my relatives was how much an organic bushel of grain was worth.....but never saw much, if any, progress. Did I mention they(everyone in the area) all quit?

Agreed. Dont do it, there is no money in it.

[hobbyfrmr]

I am about 15 years into the last 5 years of my farming career. Interesting thoughts LEP 😂

Same thing here Pourfarmer. I like LEP’s line of thinking.

Everybody knows you cant grow a crop without the best seeds, fertilizer and spray.

[farmaholic]

Agreed. Dont do it, there is no money in it.

I included disclaimers in my post. Surely you picked up on them.

Here's another....not everyone survives conventional farming either.

Therefore, it may not be so much the farming method that determines success as much as the farmer.


Re tillage. I think before I would subject my land to the potential of wind and water erosion from widespread and sometimes frequent tillage to control weeds or plowdowns, I would do what Grassy does and cover it with mixed forage.

Or quit.

[hobbyfrmr]

I included disclaimers in my post. Surely you picked up on them.

Here's another....not everyone survives conventional farming either.

Therefore, it may not be so much the farming method that determines success as much as the farmer.


Re tillage. I think before I would subject my land to the potential of wind and water erosion from widespread and sometimes frequent tillage to control weeds or plowdowns, I would do what Grassy does and cover it with mixed forage.

Or quit.

Good. At least you are thinking.
The last thing I want to do is be right all the time. Any occupation reliant on nature has constant challenges.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

First of all, since Grassfarmer likes to nitpick the smallest details in anyone else's posts( well mostly SF3's, and they usually are large glaring details...), but what is timely about an article from June, in November?

Regarding the short life span of organic farmers,I would suspect there are two different types of operations that would make the switch. I expect it is much like the intensive grazers around here. There were some well run operations who successfully adopted intensive grazing, and extended grazing seasons, increasing their profitability, reducing equipment hours and workload. Then there are all the rest, who were at the end of their leash, land wouldn't produce hay or crops any more, no money for fertilizer or diesel or equipment, so in a last ditch effort, they put electric fences across everything, sold the machinery and expected it magically to become productive and profitable overnight. The former are still successful farmers, the later bought a few more years before going completely out of business, and the list is long.

I'm sure there are organic farmers in the latter category as well, already virtually broke and unproductive, who can't afford the inputs to increase productivity, so making the switch would be a last ditch effort. With obviously expected results. Then there are those ( the majority from what I know) who were good managers to start with, and transitioned productive land into organic, sparing no expense in time and money along the way who make it work very successfully.

[LEP]

I am about 15 years into the last 5 years of my farming career. Interesting thoughts LEP 😂

Just repeating what I have been told multiple times by former associates that are still in the business.

You have to see it yourself that there is a pretty good turnover.

Good for you for making a go of it.

[grassfarmer]

First of all, since Grassfarmer likes to nitpick the smallest details in anyone else's posts( well mostly SF3's, and they usually are large glaring details...), but what is timely about an article from June, in November?

Timely with regard to the problems raised in recent threads about overpriced inputs, control of seeds, lack of profitability. Farmers in other parts of the world are finding this agroecology idea is solving their problems on these topics.
You need to practice your nit picking because you missed a bigger one - the Rodale report was from 2011 lol.

For farmaholic - the Rodale folks don't do recreational tillage so don't envisage it has to be bare soil and blowing dirt in the slum of the ghetto. Rodale is perhaps best known for their crimper roller they use to terminate a cover crop and prepare for seeding the new one into.
see here: http://rodaleinstitute.org/why-organic/organic-farming-practices/organic-no-till/ http://https://rodaleinstitute.org/why-organic/organic-farming-practices/organic-no-till/

[hobbyfrmr]

First of all, since Grassfarmer likes to nitpick the smallest details in anyone else's posts( well mostly SF3's, and they usually are large glaring details...), but what is timely about an article from June, in November?

Regarding the short life span of organic farmers,I would suspect there are two different types of operations that would make the switch. I expect it is much like the intensive grazers around here. There were some well run operations who successfully adopted intensive grazing, and extended grazing seasons, increasing their profitability, reducing equipment hours and workload. Then there are all the rest, who were at the end of their leash, land wouldn't produce hay or crops any more, no money for fertilizer or diesel or equipment, so in a last ditch effort, they put electric fences across everything, sold the machinery and expected it magically to become productive and profitable overnight. The former are still successful farmers, the later bought a few more years before going completely out of business, and the list is long.

I'm sure there are organic farmers in the latter category as well, already virtually broke and unproductive, who can't afford the inputs to increase productivity, so making the switch would be a last ditch effort. With obviously expected results. Then there are those ( the majority from what I know) who were good managers to start with, and transitioned productive land into organic, sparing no expense in time and money along the way who make it work very successfully.

Its just perception.
Most farmers cant afford not to buy inputs.
Looking at the provincial % acres seeded to canola, the growing discoveries of clubroot and the popularity of Input Capital Corp, it looks like farmers cant afford to not plant canola.
Lenders do not like farmers borrowing small amouts of money when they have all that “lazy equity” sitting around not progressing or growing.

[farmaholic]

Interesting Grassy. What's interesting is the ability for the disc seeder to seed through that flattened tall cover crop because it is leaning/laying in the same direction as the seeder is being pulled through it.

Did you see the deer dart out of the standing crop near the beginning of the video?

...also, I don't know if we have a long enough season for that.

I would have to downsize.

Could you imagine if Western Canada balked the work of Bechards, Halfords with an air delivery direct seeding system. And who ever else pioneered innovative advancements in Prairie agriculture. Guy Lafond and all his associates...

[grassfarmer]

Long enough season or not enough moisture farma? there certainly is not one size that fits all in different areas of the continent. Gabe Brown does seed into cover crops too and he can't be that much further south (or wetter) than we are. I think these things are worth looking into though - not dismissing them outright as some do because their neighbour wasn't a good organic farmer.
We grew hairy vetch with oats once and it did well - once we cut greenfeed the vetch took off and would have been an awesome thatch to seed into the next spring but we grazed it with cows after it was dormant and couldn't believe how they vacuumed it up - there was nothing left.