2500 more jobs lost again

[dmlfarmer]

Since many of you are blaming Trudeau for the closure of Oshawa, I really am interested to know what you would have done to prevent this or doing now in light of the closure notification if you were PM.

Here is a timeline of events leading up to this, just so you are all answering from the same basis.
-2009 global recession results in both GM an Chrysler filing for bankruptcy.
-US provides 66 billion in bailout funding and to prevent companies abandoning Canada, Harper government provides about 15 billion in bailout funding
-Roughly 1.5 billion of Canada bailout go towards the bankrupt companies and as early as 2014 government confirmed this money was uncollectable as these companies no longer exist.
-13.7 billion of Canada bailout was used to buy stock in new GM and new Chrysler companies. This stock purchase did not direct how bailout funds were to be used, only that auto production must continue in Canada until 2016.
-in 2014 the Conservative government dumped their ownership of remaining 73.4 million GM shares (had sold other shares previously) in order to balance the budget. This sale closed the book on the share investment the government had made in the companies and resulted in a loss of about 3.5 billion.
-This spring Morneau officially wrote off the uncollectable 1.5 billion that had been given to the old GM and old Chrysler companies.

So as PM, what would you do. Remember, this is a non government, public company that has decided to close a plant.

[GALAXIE500]

Nobody ever feels sad for the farmers..
I am sure JT will give them another bail out..

I don't know too many farmers that get over $60 dollars / hour plus benefits either. Funny how Bombardier gets a billion $ any time they need it. We will see how long till GM comes whining to the feds. Betcha it happens!

[bucket]

Since many of you are blaming Trudeau for the closure of Oshawa, I really am interested to know what you would have done to prevent this or doing now in light of the closure notification if you were PM.

Here is a timeline of events leading up to this, just so you are all answering from the same basis.
-2009 global recession results in both GM an Chrysler filing for bankruptcy.
-US provides 66 billion in bailout funding and to prevent companies abandoning Canada, Harper government provides about 15 billion in bailout funding
-Roughly 1.5 billion of Canada bailout go towards the bankrupt companies and as early as 2014 government confirmed this money was uncollectable as these companies no longer exist.
-13.7 billion of Canada bailout was used to buy stock in new GM and new Chrysler companies. This stock purchase did not direct how bailout funds were to be used, only that auto production must continue in Canada until 2016.
-in 2014 the Conservative government dumped their ownership of remaining 73.4 million GM shares (had sold other shares previously) in order to balance the budget. This sale closed the book on the share investment the government had made in the companies and resulted in a loss of about 3.5 billion.
-This spring Morneau officially wrote off the uncollectable 1.5 billion that had been given to the old GM and old Chrysler companies.

So as PM, what would you do. Remember, this is a non government, public company that has decided to close a plant.

It might be a non government public company but it is a government funded company....and the government has been the banker....time to pay back the loans...

Or maybe I should go borrow a million bucks and sell the farm without repaying the loan...do you think I would get away with that?????

[grassfarmer]

I don't know too many farmers that get over $60 dollars / hour plus benefits either. Funny how Bombardier gets a billion $ any time they need it. We will see how long till GM comes whining to the feds. Betcha it happens!

Hmm. If your average farmer works 8 hours a day, 365 days a year (which the ones that spend 6 months on holiday clearly don't) that's 2920 hours a year. 2920 x $60 = $175,200. Yet it seemed everybody on here was complaining about changes to the tax regime for people earning over $200,000 or was it over $300,000??

[dmlfarmer]

It might be a non government public company but it is a government funded company....and the government has been the banker....time to pay back the loans...

Or maybe I should go borrow a million bucks and sell the farm without repaying the loan...do you think I would get away with that?????

As I pointed out, the only monies not paid back was given to the old GM and old Chrysler. The majority of the bailout was backed by shares, which the previous government choose to sell off in a huge lot, thereby losing 3.5 billion of tax payer money on the investment.

So a closer farmer analogy would be should the farmer who purchased Broadacre farm assets (which declared bankruptcy just like old GM and old Chrysler did) still be liable for the debt Broadacre walked away from?

To answer your question, if you are a big enough farmer, you would likely get away with it if you declared bankruptcy. How many farmers got loan writedowns in the 80s and have never had to pay back loans yet continue to farm.

[bucket]

As I pointed out, the only monies not paid back was given to the old GM and old Chrysler. The majority of the bailout was backed by shares, which the previous government choose to sell off in a huge lot, thereby losing 3.5 billion of tax payer money on the investment.

So a better farmer analogy would be should the farmer who purchased Broadacre farm assets (which declared bankruptcy) still be liable for the loans Broadacre walked away from?

To answer your question, if you are a big enough farmer, you would likely get away with it. How many farmers got loan writedowns in the 80s and have never had to pay back loans yet continue to farm.

The purchased assets went against broad acres debt ....if broad acre was a public company the shares would have went to zero...although there was enough government connections there for a bailout...

And that process is starting again with a new generation of farmers....same lender ...but the people at the lender are different because the other guys retired....

[dmlfarmer]

And that process is starting again with a new generation of farmers....same lender ...but the people at the lender are different because the other guys retired....

You are absolutely right, and I don't like it any more than you do. I think the 80's farm loan writedowns are just as bad as outstanding Broadmore debt that was written down even as Broadmore managers continuing to be paid while in bankruptcy, and as old GM and old Chrysler being given government money (which even the dumbest politician had to know a bankrupt company with no intention of continuing in business could never be forced to pay back that money), but the government provided 1.5 billion anyway.

Old GM and old Chrysler no longer exist and both the Conservative and Liberal government admitted that this bailout to these bankrupt companies is uncollectable. So bitching about getting it back is not going to make it collectible under current laws by either party.

So if you were PM, what other options are there to keep Oshawa open.

[furrowtickler]

[sumdumguy]

Tweet this morning informed me that in 2009, gov of Canada loaned/gave GM 10 billion dollars. That bought ten more years of operation of Oshawa plant. I don’t have a clue how much GM paid back but some one on AV probably knows, but assuming the loan/gift was never repaid, the cost to the taxpayer - $250,000 per employee/year. Like I say, I can’t verify any of this and I wonder if anyone really can.

[wd9]

So if you were PM, what other options are there to keep Oshawa open.

Take, all that carbon tax, get MII funding, and start an electric car company. Never let a union in the door.

[LEP]

Hmm. If your average farmer works 8 hours a day, 365 days a year (which the ones that spend 6 months on holiday clearly don't) that's 2920 hours a year. 2920 x $60 = $175,200. Yet it seemed everybody on here was complaining about changes to the tax regime for people earning over $200,000 or was it over $300,000??

I suppose in your mind that is an apples to apples comparison.

But the farmer has invested millions to get that return and the autoworker has only invested in a pair of steel toed boots... oh wait they get a boot allowance...

[fjlip]

I get $4 million per employee, never have to work! ELECTRIC? where does all the ELECTRICITY come from? Wrong answer...doesn't work well in the COLD of Canada.