Solar folly

[oneoff]

It's always most appropriate to point out weaknesses in arguments when the evidence is before everyone. Thus the time to correlate a long stretch of prairie cloudiness; light freezing drizzle and other conditions near the shortest potential "daylight" of each year.

You know; when the batteries of the electric fencer can't begin to keep up; and when the few prairie solar arrays should be put in hibernation mode for the next two months. The time when its still dark at 8:00am and when the house lights better be on for supper less than 10 hours later.

Its not as though there is likely to be any appreciable brightness in the next week or so either.

Luckily we are not dependent on solar energy during such periods. In fact we never can be unless the die hard promoters are willing to sacrifice reliability except for what can always be expected for infrequent periods of few hours.

As far as I have heard; the guy promoting the most persistently hasn't become dependent on this supposed viable alternate energy source...and its a blessing for him to have not done what he has vocalized so loudly.

I too am thankful that this particular idea has few merits for real conditions in the center of a prairie region.

[grassfarmer]

You underestimate (or don't understand) solar electric fencing technology. Not having enough sunlight to charge the battery is never an issue in the real world, even here at this time of year.

[oneoff]

Grass: You just might be suprised about what I do and do not know about solar fencers. Just because you got the last word the last time on fencers doesn't make you the expert.

Just for your information...I know for a fact that local farmers are indeed (lately) actually having trouble with sufficient sunlight to recharge their fencer batteries.

As for electricity in general; I'll put my limited knowledge up against yours anyday. I trust what I've forgotten will well exceed anything you know or will ever learn.


Bye

[beaverdam]

grasshat
We'll excuse your ignorance, in not knowing that SE Sask has been boxed in with heavy fog for a week now!
Not a ray of sun, not even a glimpse.

[SASKFARMER]

Haven’t seen the sun since I flew home

[grassfarmer]

grasshat
We'll excuse your ignorance, in not knowing that SE Sask has been boxed in with heavy fog for a week now!
Not a ray of sun, not even a glimpse.

Yeah, and we've had something like 4 days of sun during November. Decent solar fencers use so little power and recharge so quickly they can run for several weeks without any sunlight - a circumstance which rarely occurs. Just don't buy those cheap Co-Op solar fencers as they are junk.

[chuckChuck]

Yup this issue comes back every winter. You must have run out of other pressing things to worry about.

We are all aware of the limitations of solar. But when the sun is shining solar is displacing other forms of generation that helps reduce carbon emissions if base load is fossil fuels.

Once affordable storage systems become available, then solar will have a bigger share.
There are many parts of the world where the sun produces more electricity than Canada and solar is easily the cheapest source of electricity. Solar is already cheaper in Saskatchewan than Saskpower's farm rate.

The southern prairies is one of the best places in Canada to use solar. Solar systems will easily pay for themselves in Saskatchewan.

Saskpower just announced improvements to their solar net metering program.

Saskpower is investing in solar, wind, and imported hydro, along with natural gas. They are studying whether to retro fit carbon capture and storage (CCS) at Shand with coal.

A much better choice would be a conversion to gas, maybe coupled with CCS. Gas is so cheap in SE Saskatchewan and the Williston basin that it is being burned off with flaring on a large scale. It would be much smarter to use for it to generate electricity.

[oneoff]

Yup this issue comes back every winter. You must have run out of other pressing things to worry about.

We are all aware of the limitations of solar. But when the sun is shining solar is displacing other forms of generation that helps reduce carbon emissions if base load is fossil fuels.

Once affordable storage systems become available, then solar will have a bigger share.
There are many parts of the world where the sun produces more electricity than Canada and solar is easily the cheapest source of electricity. Solar is already cheaper in Saskatchewan than Saskpower's farm rate.

The southern prairies is one of the best places in Canada to use solar. Solar systems will easily pay for themselves in Saskatchewan.

Saskpower just announced improvements to their solar net metering program.

Saskpower is investing in solar, wind, and imported hydro, along with natural gas. They are studying whether to retro fit carbon capture and storage (CCS) at Shand with coal.

A much better choice would be a conversion to gas, maybe coupled with CCS. Gas is so cheap in SE Saskatchewan and the Williston basin that it is being burned off with flaring on a large scale. It would be much smarter to use for it to generate electricity.

[U]Haven't nearly run out of things to do. Just pointing out the last years progress on the solar front. Southern prairies supposedly one of Canada's most ideal solar locations; and it will "easily pay for itself" and yet not many have bitten. Especially if its all their money that is involved.

But until this Sask solar crusade gets some actual momentum (and the hyped up promoters actually get some skin in the game); it needs to repeated that those persons do not necessarily "do as they say".
To wait for affordable storage systems is to admit that solar energy is "not yet ready". To rely on improved Sask Power subsidies is to further stick hands into other people's back pockets.

To claim solar is cheaper than Sask Power's farm rate is to deliberately ignore the transportation and delivery costs that are included in the "farm rate"; but solar energy delivery losses; share of fixed costs and dismal uptime service record are all given a pass. Last time I checked there's more than a few minutes of darkness (on a very wide area basis) which can be expected with 100% reliability. Sure still seems that the whole grid revolves around what is needed to carry the whole load; and as of today should be seen as something that has yet to prove itself.

On the matter of gas being so cheap; it is the reason that it is flared off....
Not directly and not for long. In BC the carbon tax alone is more than the retail value of the natural gas,

Think of that. Carbon tax made payable on basis of raw wellhead casing gas when converted to its CO2 production . That also applies to Alberta for sure and I'll bet that Sask is included in list in less than a month. Now did anyone think of the costs and energy required to scrub out the H2S; process the natural gas liquids, and light hydrocarbon components. All the steam and heat released from those stacks and heat exchangers etc have had the carbon tax prepaid at the well head.

And yet some can't see why (on that basis alone) anyone in the oil industry in SE Sask will be getting less that nothing for what should literally be seen as a worthless product. Again AFTER a month's time./
And "displaced" when the sun is shining is absolutely the correct way to characterize solar, When something can "replace" our current electrical supply then it will be worthy of further study

Right now it has to be flared (because of CH4 effect on greenhouse gas effects and the activists who have complained and the H2S which of course isn't good for any creature that can't metabolize H2S as an energy source.
As for improvements in Sask Power "net metering" give me time to read. I previously looked at the changed to "poer producer" programs and concluded they are looking for bigger projects; but anyone who can see opportunities for anything but frustration and aggravation in the actual application and approval process....enlighten us all.
When you can find or explain something like impedence in the generator rotor (in layman's language) then maybe it looks like a person would want to consider participating. /[U]

[oneoff]

Yup this issue comes back every winter. You must have run out of other pressing things to worry about.

We are all aware of the limitations of solar. But when the sun is shining solar is displacing other forms of generation that helps reduce carbon emissions if base load is fossil fuels.

Once affordable storage systems become available, then solar will have a bigger share.
There are many parts of the world where the sun produces more electricity than Canada and solar is easily the cheapest source of electricity. Solar is already cheaper in Saskatchewan than Saskpower's farm rate.

The southern prairies is one of the best places in Canada to use solar. Solar systems will easily pay for themselves in Saskatchewan.

Saskpower just announced improvements to their solar net metering program.

Saskpower is investing in solar, wind, and imported hydro, along with natural gas. They are studying whether to retro fit carbon capture and storage (CCS) at Shand with coal.

A much better choice would be a conversion to gas, maybe coupled with CCS. Gas is so cheap in SE Saskatchewan and the Williston basin that it is being burned off with flaring on a large scale. It would be much smarter to use for it to generate electricity.

[U]Haven't nearly run out of things to do. Just pointing out the last years progress on the solar front. Southern prairies supposedly one of Canada's most ideal solar locations; and it will "easily pay for itself" and yet not many have bitten. Especially if its all their money that is involved.

But until this Sask solar crusade gets some actual momentum (and the hyped up promoters actually get some skin in the game); it needs to repeated that those persons do not necessarily "do as they say".
To wait for affordable storage systems is to admit that solar energy is "not yet ready". To rely on improved Sask Power subsidies is to further stick hands into other people's back pockets.

To claim solar is cheaper than Sask Power's farm rate is to deliberately ignore the transportation and delivery costs that are included in the "farm rate"; but solar energy delivery losses; share of fixed costs and dismal uptime service record are all given a pass. Last time I checked there's more than a few minutes of darkness (on a very wide area basis) which can be expected with 100% reliability. Sure still seems that the whole grid revolves around what is needed to carry the whole load; and as of today should be seen as something that has yet to prove itself.

On the matter of gas being so cheap; it is the reason that it is flared off....
Not directly and not for long. In BC the carbon tax alone is more than the retail value of the natural gas,

Think of that. Carbon tax made payable on basis of raw wellhead casing gas when converted to its CO2 production . That also applies to Alberta for sure and I'll bet that Sask is included in list in less than a month. Now did anyone think of the costs and energy required to scrub out the H2S; process the natural gas liquids, and light hydrocarbon components. All the steam and heat released from those stacks and heat exchangers etc have had the carbon tax prepaid at the well head.

And yet some can't see why (on that basis alone) anyone in the oil industry in SE Sask will be getting less that nothing for what should literally be seen as a worthless product. Again AFTER a month's time./
And "displaced" when the sun is shining is absolutely the correct way to characterize solar, When something can "replace" our current electrical supply then it will be worthy of further study

Right now it has to be flared (because of CH4 effect on greenhouse gas effects and the activists who have complained and the H2S which of course isn't good for any creature that can't metabolize H2S as an energy source.
As for improvements in Sask Power "net metering" give me time to read. I previously looked at the changed "power producer" programs and concluded they are looking for bigger projects; but anyone who can see opportunities for anything but frustration and aggravation in the actual application and approval process....enlighten us all.
When you can find or explain something like impedence in the generator rotor (in layman's language) then maybe it looks like a person would want to consider participating. /[U]

[oneoff]

Can't seem to make bold and underlining work....but maybe its not worth the effort anyway.

[oneoff]

Just for information; the deadline for the improved Sask Power program probably expired yesterday. You'd think someone could have emphasized that deadline a bit better.

Personally I feel that something not worthy of doing on its own merits should be flagged as such; and treated very suspiciously.

[oneoff]

Just for information; the deadline for the improved Sask Power programs probably expired yesterday. You'd think someone could have emphasized that deadline a bit better.

Personally I feel that something not worthy of doing on its own merits should be flagged as such; and treated very suspiciously.

[oneoff]

Here's the Leader Post take on the newe Sask Power Program. And yes it appears on has to wait another full year to apply for Year 2. Too slow for this year; but just maybe that is a blessing.

Quote

Sask. announces new power generation program as part of climate change strategy
The Saskatchewan government has announced a new power program that will provide SaskPower with additional sources of energy and is meant to contribute to the province's climate change strategy.

D.C. FRASER, REGINA LEADER-POST Updated: October 3, 2018

SaskPower head office in Regina. TROY FLEECE / REGINA LEADER-POST

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With an eye on reducing carbon emissions, the Saskatchewan government is planning to make it easier to sell power to SaskPower.

Announced Wednesday, the Power Generation Partner Program (PGPP) — which replaces the Small Power Producers program and the Flare Gas Power Generation program — is a two-year plan, with an option to extend it to three and allows customers to develop “power generation projects” to sell electricity to SaskPower.

Environment and SaskPower Minister Dustin Duncan says the new program was developed after a “significant amount of consultation.”

He says the new program will bring anywhere between 70 and 105 MWs of power onto the province’s grid.

Duncan said caps on the amount of power the Crown would purchase under the two previous programs were raised as concerns by stakeholders.



“That certainly caused some pause, particularly on the industry side,” he said, noting companies have to make an investment in order to generate power for the grid, and under the previous program the dollars involved in that “didn’t make sense.”

He is expecting “much greater uptake” under the new plan, in part because the amount of power the Crown will purchase is being increased.

Every year, the PGPP will accept up to 10 megawatts of renewable generation, like solar, and 25 megawatts of carbon-neutral non-renewable generation, like flare gas. Applications will be accepted on an annual basis. This year’s application window runs from Nov. 15 to 30.

Duncan says on the industry side, the program will “not really be seen as a revenue generator,” but as a way for companies to reduce or negate their own emissions. That will likely come in the form of carbon-neutral, non-renewable power generation coming from flare gas. The idea being companies will invest money to be able to sell power from flare gas back to SaskPower rather than allow it to be a pollutant.

In order for that plan to be financially feasible for companies, Duncan says industry will “need a buyer for that gas in order for it to make sense.”

Under this program, SaskPower will be that buyer.

On the renewable generation side of the program, Duncan is expecting some SaskPower customers, as well as some municipalities, to invest. Large solar projects, paid for by individuals or municipalities aiming to enter the renewable power market, are an example of that.

Duncan admitted the power purchased under the program will be at a “bit of a premium” but said that will be “managed through the rates by SaskPower.”

An updated New Metering Program, where customers receive rebates when they generate renewable electricity to offset their own power use, will be announced later this year.

dfraser@postmedia.com

UNQUOTE