Commodities VS Products

[TOM4CWB]

Charlie;

I just stuck a Beef pot roast in the oven... and it struck me that the way we are treating BSE is insane!

Commodity thinking says we are going to pay too much for every animal to be tested... even at 5 cents per pound...

I would gladly pay 25cents/pound extra to have my beef certified BSE free... and I am sure anyone else eating beef on this forum is no different!

SO WHAT IS GOING ON?

WHY are we so blinded that common sense is thrown out the door... for the profit margins of a few multinationals who might be inconvenienced a little to implement a testing program?

ARE WE SO STUPID?

WE LOOSE Billions of dollars because we refuse to wake up and smell the coffee...

THis affects every community in Alberta... our grain farms... everyone who eats beef.

WHAT ARE WE THINKING?

[charliep]

I will open up for discussion but here are my thoughts.

We need to make sure that whatever we do is science based. My understanding is that young animals are not at risk/will not exhibit this disease. Testing these animals wouldn't prove anything. Testing should occur at some level in older animals that are at risk. Whether this is 1%, 10% or 100%, I will leave for discussion.

More important will be how animals are slaughered in terms of things like enhance meat recovery techiniques and separation of the specified risk materials both from the human food and animal feed chains. Again I am not the technical expert and will have to leave for discussion.

Finally, policy decisions around meat and bone/other by products from livestock will also have an impact. As asked by Ianben in another thread, it is likely North America will move to more plant based proteins in livestock feeds. The question from here is the impact on the competitiveness of the livestock industry when the US has a different set of rules than Canada does (potentially).

I will leave the rest for discussion.

[charliep]

Just as a note Tom4cwb, it is good to see you are eating pot roast (brisket). I had one of the best roast ever (brisket) at Earls resteraunt. We need to find new uses for non prime cuts.

My brother is looking at slaughtering some cows (3 to 5 years old) and direct marketing with myself as customer. I am looking forward to trying to separate out some of the prime cuts (i.e. things like tenderloins) before they grind the rest into hamburger. The butcher we use also makes very tasty sausages. With challenges come opportunities for creative thinking.

[TOM4CWB]

Charlie;

I posted this below.... sort of leaves our "SCEINCE" in the dust, doesn't it?

I see this on DTN AgNews today;

"Japan Seeks Stricter BSE Standards
01/12 09:56
TOKYO (Nikkei) -- The Japanese government will request that the World Organization for Animal Health establish stricter international inspection standards for bovine spongiform encephalopathy, or BSE, commonly known as mad cow disease, the Nihon Keizai Shimbun reports in its Monday edition.

The intergovernmental organization, known as the OIE, is responsible for monitoring contagious diseases among livestock.

Japan requires BSE screening for all domestic cattle slated for shipment as part of one of the world's most stringent inspection programs. But international standards require that the U.S., which annually ships 35 million head of cattle, inspect only about 500. The U.S. government screens around 20,000 head of cattle, and officials say that the current inspection regime is scientific.

During the organization's general meeting in May, the Japanese government will tout the effectiveness of its comprehensive screening initiative and call for an increase in minimum sample standards. Officials are also expected to seek inspections for cattle less than two years old, which are considered to be safe under international standards. Among the nine cases of BSE discovered in Japan, two were from cattle younger than two years old.

(CZ)"

I would say the International BSE standards need some serious work, wouldn't you say?

[charliep]

Actually this article is a source of optimism. The Japanese are after increased testing (including some animals under 24 months). The negotiation part is too determine how many and protocols for insuring accuracy of the system.

[TOM4CWB]

Charlie;

I saw this on DTN;




"UN: BSE Measures Not Enough
01/12 13:44

ROME (AP) -- Measures taken by many countries to screen cattle for bovine spongiform encephalopathy are not enough to prevent the spread of the infection and reassure consumers, a U.N. food agency said Monday.

The U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization said the discovery of the first case of BSE in the U.S. in December highlights the need for wider testing programs and the stricter application of preventive measures in countries where the disease is known to be present.

Currently, countries such as the U.S., Australia and Canada test only a small percentage of cattle aged over 30 months for the disease, between one out of 10,000 to one out of 100,000, the Rome-based agency said.

The agency recommended testing all cattle older than 30 months, an age beyond which the disease becomes detectable, as a measure to enhance consumer confidence.

Mad cow disease eats holes in the brains of cattle and is incurable. Experts believe humans can develop a brain-wasting illness, variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, by consuming contaminated beef products.

The U.N. agency also recommended strengthening other precautionary measures such as the removal and destruction from cattle of the brain and spinal cord -body parts that are more likely to carry the disease -and strictly enforcing the ban on feeding animals with recycled meat and bone meal from possibly infected cows."


Charlie;

I will repeat what the UN said today: "The agency recommended testing all cattle older than 30 months."

Since the Japanese have found BSE in Beef animals under 24 months, and Scientific articles claim that only cattle under 12 months old are safe...

SInce we are losing close to $500/slaughtered animal, what exactly are we waiting for?

[cowman]

The so-called "science" on TSE diseases is so shaky that everyone who eats meat should be questioning it. The fact is the scientists just don't know.
The governments of both Canada and the US are playing games with human health...sort of like they did with the blood supply back in the eighties! The testing procedures now in place are not only inefficient and costly but do little to stop animals from entering the food chain. The first Canadian BSE cow didn't enter the food chain, because she had pneumonia, not because they knew she had BSE! They never found that she had BSE until 4 months later!
There is a guy, in Colorado, who has developed a live blood test. He has gotten absolutely no support or encouragement from either governments...and continues to get none!
If ALL cattle, sheep, deer were blood tested before they move off the farms for slaughter we would be assured a safe meat supply and no further contamination. The test results are back within 24-48 hour. Cheap at a suggested $7-8 US.
This is the way we need to go. No hassle at the packing plant and no extra cost to them. As TOM said "What is the problem here?"

[chaffmeister]

Can any tell me where to find the scientific evidence that BDE in cattle causes CJD in humans? I read a while back that there has been no direct connection found. In fact, one study in the UK revealed that, of the people who died of CJD in Britain during the 90's supposedly because of the outbreak of BSE, more than half were vegetarians.

If we talk about science, shouldn't we start with determining - scientifically - if BSE in cattle is even a risk to humans?

[parsley]

Oh Chaffmeister,

If you follow science according to the letter of the harmone-replacement companies, you might tell your wife to NOT be afraid to bathe in estrogen!

On the other hand, if you told her this in her former life, you'd tell her not to bathe in the ocean, because she might fall off the edge, according to science.

Parsley

[chaffmeister]

Parsley:
I know its been a long time since I last posted on Agriville, but I'm afraid I'm not sure what you are saying!

I think you're saying that science / scientists don't prove anything!

But how is we are freaking out about BSE even without any "science" to explain the risk?

[TOM4CWB]

Chaffmeister;

THe point of this topic was to highlight "we need to provide what our customer needs".

In this case the Japaneese need a BSE test... why not provide it?

If I am willing to pay 25 cents a pound more for beef I am serving to my children and freinds... why not provide me with my needs?

If I can provide a top quality product to a wheat miller/processor at a fair price... agreed upon freely by both of us, why should the CWB/Feds stop us from doing business?

On the Processor side... BSE I am told has paid for the total capital cost of the packing infrastructure twice over since May of 03. Do you think processors really want testing... which will drastically reduce profit margins?

[TOM4CWB]

Chaffmeister;

I see this on DTN;

"A New "Gold Standard" Test for BSE?
01/16 12:42
The argument over whether cows younger than 30 months of age need to be tested for BSE may boil down to which testing method to believe. USDA says the "gold standard" test doesn't reveal BSE in cows under 30 months, so what's the point? Some Japanese scientists think the U.S. needs a new "gold standard," as DTN Special Correspondent Richard Hanson reports.

By Richard Hanson DTN Special Correspondent

TOKYO (DTN) -- This is what dining out on beef, post-December 23, may be like unless someone figures out how to test properly for bovine spongiform encephalopathy, widely known as mad cow disease:

The chef is about to flame a juicy cut of grain-fed U.S. prime sirloin beef at your favorite Teppan-yaki place.

The chef says: "This meat is safe."

Hungry customer, bib in place, asks: "How do you know?"

Chef: "Well, it passed America's Gold Standard test -- it's a big 'negative' for that mad cow disease."

Customer: "Great, no mad cow."

Chef: "Yeah, it probably doesn't matter that it was 'positive' -- you know, a little gamy -- in that Western Blotting test, the one they use in Japan. How do you want your meat done? Rare?"

Customer: "Uh, how's the chicken today?"

Gold Standard and Western Blotting -- both scientific methods for detecting and confirming the deadly cattle disease bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) -- have become buzz words in a delicate stand-off between the U.S. Department of Agriculture and Japanese farm officials over which tests are really going to tell the truth about which animals have mad cow disease.

U.S. officials have questioned recent tests done by Japan, and favored by Japanese scientists, called Western Blotting, that have produced positive (meaning the animal has BSE) test results in the latest two cases of the disease in the autumn last year. These were positives on cattle much younger than usual (21 and 23 months old), which shocked the Japanese public and caused confusion in the scientific community.

What puzzled everyone is that when these same two cases were tested using the test USDA and others consider the Gold Standard, the results were negative -- no BSE. This test is called immunohistochemical screening. A lab uses a tissue sample that is treated with a stain carrying antibodies that cling to the abnormal prions that cause the disease. A pathologist then looks for an accumulation of stained antibodies in the sample..."

What is Science... and who exactly do we believe?

Don't we err on side of caution?

[charliep]

Tom4cwb

Not sure where you are going with this.

On the trade/access side, negotiations are going on as we speak. Issues around level of testing and age of animals who understand BSE and risk better than I do. I am not convinced Canada/the US will get access to the Japanese/other markets even if all animals were tested. What do the Japanese want and are they willing to commit to it? I think it is important not to lock the livestock industry into a bunch of constraints without clear cut benefits.

On the food safety side, I have to query you why you think Canada is on the verge of a BSE epedemic? Relative to all the risks we expose ourselves to by just getting up in the morning, where does BSE fit as a risk? Or are your issues simply to get trade access to other countries?

Expressing my view, I think that increased testing is necessary. Age and percentage are beyond my expertise. Policy around specified risk materials is also critical (this is where the disease potentially comes from) both from the aspect of recycling in feed protein products and excluding from human food products (advanced meat recovery/looking at how meat cutting around high risk areas is handled). I just want to make sure the policy has clear objectives, minimizes the impact on Canada's competitiveness relative to other exporters and ensures a safe product consumers can have confidence in.

[parsley]

If you want it simplified charliep, this is what the consumer expects and demands:

Ground up animals, including brains, CANNOT be made into feed and fed to ruminants. That's the KEY worrisome issue for consumers. And Food Inspection has to make sure it doesn't happen.


Checking prepared feed and feed mills is not a cattleman's expense, as I see it.

Parsley

[charliep]

Just as a question, should the things you are asking for be done strictly by government reguation or is there room to set up protocols/trace backs that can satisfy specific customer needs (even Japan)? Example a more clearly defined natural beef (100 % tested, no animal by products feed of any sort, minimal on an as need basis/documented use of antibiotics)?