Comments from seed royalty meeting

[westernvicki]

The meeting isolated the question between two choices, one obvious. I guess what bothers me is the age old debate about who pays who benefits and how it relates to the national policy of Canada is one that needs to happen but it was not in the room.

Canada & farmers cannot ignore the fact that increasing global competition from lower cost, more ideally located geographically production zones is real, the debate of how we compete globally, is one the nation should have.

Keeping up with genetic edge is vital to Canadian crop competitiveness, the way the costs are split is the question.

[westernvicki]

One farmer did suggest a producer owned seed company?

Where could this go?

LIMAGRAIN is a farmer owned seed company, if we need a model.

[bucket]

SF3

I was pissed at what I heard from the Winnipeg so I had to go to Saskatoon...


What I found it there was 150 people corralled in a room..

The seed growers were well represented....not sure why,,,, they have had their say to get to this point...

There was the AAFC CDC and Limagrain ...good pitches for justifying this royalty thing...I get that..

But I don't get why I pay a checkoff out of one pocket, excess rail freight out of another, general taxes that go to this shit out of another pocket, and now the last pocket is going to be a royalty....

Where the **** is a pocket for Bucket???? Don't say use a pail..I have heard that before....

[furrowtickler]

So where does this tax money come from ? It’s no different than the carbon tax in a way . All this extra money come out of thin air ?????
Run the numbers on wheat in western Canada the past ten years ..... there is already *** all left for net profit . So where does this money come from when it becomes absolutely non profitable for the producer and no one grows wheat ? Or the wheat with all the “seed tax” on it ?
Was that reality brought up ? Do they realize that when crops are not profitable anymore , farmers quit growing them ?
I guess the “seed tax” or royalties are acceptable if your the direct beneficiary or part of .
Death by 1000 cuts ... every one else thinks they deserve a piece of the primary producers every move ...

[westernvicki]

As for seed growers bucket, in AU the companies offer a program to seed and resell seed off certified in an effort to increase market share: AGT has a contract easily googled.

The seed industry will change, likely to more contract type production and hybrids, no bonanza here for long for us, my get.

I do however know first hand that good varieties do make you money and are the incremental gain which over the course of farm carreer are worth the investment.

Having marketed niche seeds globally for most of my life, I also know the world is open to finding homes for ingredients, and commodities both.


The question of this debate is one of process. We will pay more. How the rules are set, what are trade offs are is important.

We need better data on varieties so we can have better information of product performance of varieties.
We need a process to deal with conflict of interest potential
We need to address who pays for what.

Should administrators be paid, when in reality they benefit as well from the increased production.

Lots of question, I just hope someone is asking for them to be addressed.

[bucket]

One farmer did suggest a producer owned seed company?

Where could this go?

LIMAGRAIN is a farmer owned seed company, if we need a model.

Here is what I got from talking to Kofi from CDC.....I asked "when you tender a variety once developed you add up all your costs and a ROI on the money used to get to that point and make some money for further development, in other words you use that as a profit centre?"""

The short answer was NO.

I think thats wherein lies the problem....as a comparison if CDC was run like Limagrain , if thats the model for this discussion, how do we get there?

Farmer ownership of CDC from the checkoffs?

I don't know,,,,but the royalty doesn't guarantee it benefits Canadian farmers.

Travis from the Swift Current area asked that , and why I wanted clarity, who pays the royalty on a Canadian variety developed in Canada but also ends up being grown in Khakistan?

That was very good question.....

[SASKFARMER3]

We have nothing left to give.

I agree with Furrow if Wheat becomes unprofitable Ill grow something else. We use to laugh it was a filler crop before the CWB ended. Needed it for rotation but the reality is it just broke even. Canola paid the bills plus pulse.

But thanks to useless organizations that probably think the seed idea is great screwed up Peas.

Now more costs.

100-bushel wheat is possible but reality like canola it has a min to do with Variety and lots to do with Mother nature giving timely rains.

A fertility program to grow a 100-bushel crop. Yea it's not 100 n and 50 phos.

A fungicide program that you actually understand what's happening in your field.

No hail from mother nature at the wrong time or spring frost or got forbid a fall frost.

See ever where till it's in the pit is a risk by agreeing to this latest parasite move to extract more money from us with Zero risks to them.

Watch if it happens you will get yearly Oh, we need an increase in the tax of 1% pay up my farmer.

It will continue till we're broke.

Go to Russia or Ukraine and try this shit or South America the new frontier. Won't happen but pick Canadian farmers bones clean oh yea that shit show will happen.

Like Vicky says we need to get our shit together and look at the changing world.

Were landlocked and the bottleneck is the Mountains etc.

These other areas that can grow two to three crops a year or cheap producing areas will kick our ass.

Will we eventually be like oil Bankrupt and looking at the Feds and saying WTF happened.

Do something fun once bring up google maps and look south to the American water system and see how close it actually is to your farm. I think Sask Alberta and Manitoba would be better as Americans than Canadians Just saying.

Eventually, the Mouse fights back. It's happening in France I think us peaceful Canadians need to take our country back.

[bucket]

Westernvicki

Here is the real life scenario on durum

in 2016 I grew my crop from 2015 seed ...it was a terrible FUZZ year as everyone knows....no amount of spray saved even the newest varieties....that is a fact.

In 2017 I used more of the leftover 2015 seed...grew a 1cwad
In 2018 i used the 2017 crop...it was a 1cwad until september 13 then the rains came....everyone knows about this....even the newest varieties would be downgraded due to weather....

Royalties and new varieties don't guarantee anything to me except more costs to my farm....Guarantees seed companies money though...

Here is another point I brought up talking to government people...I was at the elevator this fall during harvest and the marketing rep was telling a guy that delivered a 3cwad to put it on their 5cwad 10ppm Fuzz program because it was better money....

They talk about better value and higher performing varieties but this year the highest and best value would have been to sign a 5cwad 10ppm FUZZ contract for my whole durum crop....That price is still better than today's for a 1cwad.

The stress of watching a crop weather to lower grades would have went away....

Value can mean different thing to different people....Value means money in my pocket...

New high performing varieties can't guarantee that....

[Rareearth]

So seed companies need royalties to develop better quality and higher yields to remain competitive?

1. Please provide example “apples to apples” please demonstrating the current Canadian varieties are inferior to grains being produced in other countries.

2. If “cost” competitiveness for Canadian growers can only be maintained with better quality and higher yields, please illustrate and demonstrate:
- how much better the quality would have to be for Canadian grower competitiveness.
- how long would or could this attribute be maintained exclusively in Canada before other competitive nations have the same attributes ( oh ya, the multi national companies will sell the same varieties/different name in all other Countries it can)
- and who are we being out competed by?

- repeat all quality questions and insert yield



3. Are there terminator gene technologies that will be bred into the varieties subtly? To protect the varieties?

4. Europe is classifying mutigenisis as a GMO technology. How are these new varieties being bred?
Crisper is also being defined as a GMO technology.

5. If we have seed royalty system there is no need for producer check off system, the seed companies will do all agronomy, Market promotion, etc (you know look after the producer)

[macdon02]

So as devils advocate, US soybean grower pays checkoff to bean board, rup beans get developed, then M takes beans to Brazil and surprise surprise, the Brazilian bean grower doesn't buy seed and doesn't pay royalty. So M sees all the benefit and the growers get the pickle. Sounds like paying a tax to clean up a third world mess ... I'm assuming no clause when epr is paid that the genetics are solely for the benefit of Canadian growers? Of course not ....

[GOODRUM]

Did I understand it correctly that this is not being considered in the United States?

[grassfarmer]

Good report Bucket. Sounds familiar - the carefully stacked deck with small table groups with Government and seed growers spread out among the participants to quell dissent and control agenda.
We were faced with that once at an oil field "open house" to promote a questionable project. We just walked in and rearranged all the chairs into regular meeting format with the Government and oil company reps up front facing the crowd. They were then grilled and told in no uncertain terms exactly what we thought of their plan. It's a way for farmers to take back control of the meeting - maybe folks should try it at the next meeting?