Renewables Chuck

[chuckChuck]

If it all had a reasonable return on investment every single one on this forum and in Canada would be jumping on the bandwagon to buy it.

Sort of like the pet Rock years ago.

But in Reality, it's expensive and costly with a 25 to 50-year return.

I'll be dead by then.

Huge subsidies wouldn't be needed if it worked as well as they say.

Follow the money good sales peoplekind on Climate barbies ear, probably family connected to this whole shit show.

Grid tied Solar PV is already cheaper in Saskatchewan than farm rates and residential rates. I did a rough calculation that even without subsidies the long term cost of solar is around 8 cents a kwh. Farms currently pay 11.8 cents a kwh, residential is 14 cents. Grid tied Solar systems should pay for themselves in about 10 years under Saskatchewan's net metering program.

Solar is a better fit in Australia but the southern prairies is the best place in Canada to have solar. Saskpower is investing in some solar but a lot more wind. Primarily because it is cheaper than new gas or coal plants. And much cheaper than carbon capture and storage.

We still need hydro, gas or coal for base load. All we need is lower cost large storage systems to make renewables have a bigger share of the grid. That will take awahile.

[SASKFARMER3]

Hey, chuck I have a question.

In an area close to my home in Florida a whole section is covered in Solar panels what a lovely sight, "Puke". Or a massive field of windmills and the WHOP WHOP sound. Now compare what that looks like to a nice dam on the South or north Saskatchewan rivers with recreation and fishing and irrigation.

We have a 100 year supply of coal and clean coal its here we just need to get it out burn and power are supplied.

I would take the second hands down or nuke or coal building.

Nice row of panels you have and only 10 years to pay for themselves before you see some cash back. Wow great, you would be what 70 buy them. Better hope the old folks home is heated with solar or wind.

[chuckChuck]

Hey, chuck I have a question.

In an area close to my home in Florida a whole section is covered in Solar panels what a lovely sight, "Puke". Or a massive field of windmills and the WHOP WHOP sound. Now compare what that looks like to a nice dam on the South or north Saskatchewan rivers with recreation and fishing and irrigation.

We have a 100 year supply of coal and clean coal its here we just need to get it out burn and power are supplied.

I would take the second hands down or nuke or coal building.

Nice row of panels you have and only 10 years to pay for themselves before you see some cash back. Wow great, you would be what 70 buy them. Better hope the old folks home is heated with solar or wind.

Hydro is a great choice in Canada but it comes with some environmental negatives. We already have lots especially in Quebec, Manitoba and BC.

Nuclear is one of the most expensive options.

Coal is dirty and more expensive than renewables especially when you include the health and environmental costs. Coal is old 19 century technology.

We have a surplus of natural gas being wasted with flaring at oil facilities. A good interim option would be more gas with carbon capture and storage.

Solar can be used to cover roofs or walls in many parts of the world. Most of the urban world is already covered in pavement and concrete. More green space would be nice. Solar roofs don't look any worse than asphalt shingles.

Solar is an asset that will benefit the next generation. Will your $70,000 diesel pickup still be useful in 25 or 30 years? Solar panels have a 25 year guarantee of 80% of the original output. Compared to a truck they are a much better investment.

Wind can be offshore or in areas that make sense.

Oil wells look like crap and cut up agricultural land, but few seem to care about how they look.

[wd9]

If it all had a reasonable return on investment every single one on this forum and in Canada would be jumping on the bandwagon to buy it.


I'll be dead by then.

You'll be dead anyway, wouldn't you rather have at least tried to make a difference? Take the billions off oil subsidy and put on renewable. It'll already look much better financially and it won't cost an extra cent.

[SASKFARMER3]

Like I posted earlier if this was such a great thing that all of you are promoting wouldn't it get the public excited and want to race down to the hardware store and purchase or get an electrician in and install them on every single shed grain bin home dog house etc.

But again without subsidies its a dud. Let that soak in.

Next trip south ill take a picture of the field covered in them. Or just drive to Alberta and look in Brooks god its ugly.

Why not use what we have Gas and Coal etc until it's done by that time the solar might be perfected and will be pennies to buy.

Canada isn't the problem its Countries like China and India that produce this shit for sale in Canada.

[chuckChuck]

Like I posted earlier if this was such a great thing that all of you are promoting wouldn't it get the public excited and want to race down to the hardware store and purchase or get an electrician in and install them on every single shed grain bin home dog house etc.

But again without subsidies its a dud. Let that soak in.

Next trip south ill take a picture of the field covered in them. Or just drive to Alberta and look in Brooks god its ugly.

Why not use what we have Gas and Coal etc until it's done by that time the solar might be perfected and will be pennies to buy.

Canada isn't the problem its Countries like China and India that produce this shit for sale in Canada.

Lots of solar installations being installed across the province. You do need to have some spare cash.

Even without subsidies it is about 8 cents per kwh vs 11.8 cents for farms currently. in 10 years the farm rate will be 15 cents or more??. What rate will you be paying in 20 or 30 years? A lot more than now!

The solar rate is 8 cents per kwh locked in over its estimated lifetime of 30 years. It makes economic sense now.

Renewables help bring down the cost of electricity in Australia because it is cheaper than much of their gas system.

"It found that even though South Australians were paying the highest average bills in the world, wind and solar generation in South Australia actually brought wholesale prices down — and by far more than the subsidies paid for them.

It found that in the 2017–18 financial year, renewables reduced wholesale prices by an average of about 30 per cent, or about $37 per megawatt hour, mostly due to wind generation."

They also deregulated their system years ago. Now they are paying for a lack of regulation with private companies charging whatever they want.

You can't blame the producers of consumer items in China for the consumption patterns of consumers in other countries! If there was no market they wouldn't be able to sell all the crap.

[fjlip]

oops

[jazz]

There is no place in Canada where solar is economically viable. Some select locations on the prairies, rockies and east coast can do wind. No place else and a long way from where its needed.

Unless a huge jump in efficiency occurs this will be nothing but a novelty in this country. And we don't need gas and coal for baseload, we need it for full back up on these technologies like the past week when there was no sun or wind and everything covered in hoar frost.


Developing a new source of power while having an old one that is more reliable for backup is pure folly.


Canada already has 100 million acres of solar panels combined with an annual carbon sequestration. The is NOTHING for us to do. We are sequestering 30% more carbon than we emit every year while converting sunlight to energy.

[Hamloc]

Mallee, need a little help here. According to my brother in law who lives in Canberra the exporting of LNG has set a high floor price for natural gas making natural gas quite expensive in Australia. A quick Google and it looks to me around $7.50 a gigajoule is that right? This price is roughly 4.5 times what I pay in Alberta before carbon tax. The carbon tax adds an additional $1.50 per gigajoule. But I digress, Chuck I would say that this high price of natural gas inflates the cost of natural gas power production. One other thing to look at is to compare the photovoltaic power potential map of Australia and Canada. This rates your yearly average power production per installed watt. In Australia this ranges from 1.3 to 1.9, with well over half the country at 1.8-1.9. In Canada we range from .8 to 1.5 with most of Canada in the 1.1 to 1.3 range. Southern Alberta and the southwest corner of Saskatchewan are the best places in Canada for solar power. Maps Available at solargis.com. My point is certainly cheaper and more efficient for solar power in Australia than in Canada.

[checking]

Don't give me the bullshit that you are putting in solar panels to save yourself the high energy cost of the public utility grids.

Some alarmists will admit that they need our grids for the foreseeable future, and have no intention of disconnecting from it. Okay, my records indicate that it cost me slightly less than $1.00/day for natural gas use. It costs $1.50/day for the fixed cost of having that service. My thought is that if you are afraid to disconnect because you can not rely on your redundant system, you had better add 60% more to your duel system.

Now, recalculate your 8 cent into reality.

Further, those fixed costs will rise as more seek redundancy. It will not the energy use costs in the future. The only way to get energy costs to rise in the future is the carbon taxation scheme, and is central to why you need it.