Seed Synergy... what does our Canadian seed system.. need to do?

[farmaholic]

Royalty proponents, I think alot of people are afraid of how this is going to evolve or what it will morph into.

Thomas, I think most people realize the Royalties don't stay with the pedigreed seed growers.

But also please don't try and convince us there is no premium for growing seed, and we know there are extra associated costs over and above commodity(food) grain production.

What if it looks like the canola seed market in a decade? Farm saved seed wheat helps keep costs down and gives us a better chance to be pprofitable.

What happens if extra costs associated with the use of farm saved seed become so great that it wouldn't pay to seed bin run.....enter seed growers.

If "only" a dollar a tonne is collected initially.....where is it going to end?
30 million tonnes per year....at 5 bucks a tonne,,,,150 million year in year out out of Producer's pockets, how much will be directed to R&D and how much to Co's bottom line profit?

What do we need? Fusarium RESISTANCE, nitrogen fixing ability, Bi/perennial wheat, how is any gene altered wheat going to be accepted, herbicide resistance, better agronomic packages in the varieties.

I don't know if we need more bushels.

Shouldn't the whole Industry pay for the perceived benefits, not one group paying and the rest benefiting from being able to handle more or extract more money for better quality or maybe even sell us more junk to produce the crop.

I don't think the system was broken so why are we "fixing" it.....and for who?

[Wink73]

Regardless of all the hardships in the seed industry from the breeder to the seed grower ....... the end result will be as an example ...
2000 ac wheat seed cost from $14 / ac to $35 .

That’s an extra $42,000 cost for an average grower with 2000 ac of wheat .
It does not matter how Tom splits that out into seed growers , breeders or the many other leach’s in between, that money is still going to come out of primary producers pockets . And the numbers will be at least that . No different than what happened in the canola seed Industry. It exploded from $2/lb to $15 in a relatively short time .
I am not here to bash seed growers at all , I am just stating that guys like Tom refuse to admit that this is going to cost primary producers a lot of money . He just spent the past 2 weeks making every excuse known in The industry to deflect attention to the fact stated above .
That’s the aggravation of it all ..
no different than the supporters of the carbon tax ...... just admit that it’s going to cost us all a lot of money we don’t have .
Growing more bushels to cover these costs is getting us nowhere but every one else in the Ag industry more money .
Then throw in Mother Nature in where we are at complete mercy of in terms yields ... not fancy seed , fertilizers or any other input or extra wealth transfer costs .
That is why most of us are saying ... enough already !!

Bingo Furrow.👍🏻👍🏻 Very good comments above too Farmaholic. 👆🏻

[Braveheart]

I have been talking to guys around about end point royalties. No one is planning on being in a position to pay them. Most are securing a CNHR variety (prosper in these cases) and cleaning. As little pedigreed seed as possible would be used. One guy is going to import a US variety, keep cleaning and reseeding, and will sell his production in the US.

The seed cos may have screwed themselves royalty, I mean royally.

[bucket]

THE WCWGA says I am selfish because I don't want to grow more....


Figure out how to fix the hunger problem first then....

[furrowtickler]

Synergy seed ... focus primarily in breeding on cereals that fix N . Just like what’s happening in Alberta as shown on another thread here .
Then worry about collecting royalties on something worthwhile for all of us .
Carbon tax on N fertilizer is going to severely hamper cereal producers in western Canada ... address that issue first .... then you will get the support your looking for . The work is being done in corn as well .....

[TOM4CWB]

Thx Braveheart,
There will be some radical realignment in the wheat grading system over the next 10 years... 10 bins of wheat with real quality differences... will not work in the average inland terminal long term. High px high falling number DNS type wheat, with gluten to match DNS, will occupy the vast majority of blending wheat... As usual, 13.5 CWRS will be the largest volume most years...

Winter wheat especially, and CPS eventually... production will continue to shrink, as added cost of handle... and lack of big enough marketable volumes for most large end users... will cause critical mass to be lost in these small volume secondary wheat markets. Plant breeding will naturally be rationalized... at the same time...as fewer wheat classes and the end of KVD radically simplify wheat breeding.

Higher moisture more productive areas will find DNS/CWRS genetics... that will rival CPS and Winter wheat yields. Dryer areas already are locked into high quality CWRS.. as best wheat returns result from highest blending quality. Thus... real radical changes ... it is not hard to foresee... are upon grain producers who grow wheat... that is un-contracted. Specialty wheat production... will end up much like Nexera Canola or variety specific malt barley. Not rocket science. Cheers! Merry Christmas!!

I have been talking to guys around about end point royalties. No one is planning on being in a position to pay them. Most are securing a CNHR variety (prosper in these cases) and cleaning. As little pedigreed seed as possible would be used. One guy is going to import a US variety, keep cleaning and reseeding, and will sell his production in the US.

The seed cos may have screwed themselves royalty, I mean royally.

[bucket]

Thx Braveheart,
There will be some radical realignment in the wheat grading system over the next 10 years... 10 bins of wheat with real quality differences... will not work in the average inland terminal long term. High px high falling number DNS type wheat, with gluten to match DNS, will occupy the vast majority of blending wheat... As usual, 13.5 CWRS will be the largest volume most years...

Winter wheat especially, and CPS eventually... production will continue to shrink, as added cost of handle... and lack of big enough marketable volumes for most large end users... will cause critical mass to be lost in these small volume secondary wheat markets. Plant breeding will naturally be rationalized... at the same time...as fewer wheat classes and the end of KVD radically simplify wheat breeding.

Higher moisture more productive areas will find DNS/CWRS genetics... that will rival CPS and Winter wheat yields. Dryer areas already are locked into high quality CWRS.. as best wheat returns result from highest blending quality. Thus... real radical changes ... it is not hard to foresee... are upon grain producers who grow wheat... that is un-contracted. Specialty wheat production... will end up much like Nexera Canola or variety specific malt barley. Not rocket science. Cheers! Merry Christmas!!

TOM4SAYINGSTUPIDSHIT

the grain companies don't care....one marketing rep told friends that the grain cos were mixing CPS with Durum because it worked.....

They don't want 1cwad because endusers seem to be buying 3cwad for their requirements. ...

The guys at the elevator can't tell varieties apart .....

Grading won't change until the elevator people know the differences ....they don't get paid enough to care....


When an elevator pulls a van hout coffee machine out because it costs too much....the employees are not being paid very much...and will jump to another job ASAP....

[farmaholic]

How much cheaper Red Winter gets hidden in the CWRS class? As long as end user specs are met does it matter how much of which class makes up the shipment?

Something seed taxes won't affect.

[sawfly1]

Tom , I am not saying seed growers are getting rich.

the numbers and the seed costs we have now are tempered by the fact
we can still go to the bin, at least for now.


but the writing is on the wall , every new regulation , is a step to curtail
the bin option for us..

not one of the new or old regulations/ laws , does anything to ensure our access to off patent
varieties. just the opposite .

you have to be blind , not to see where this is going in the next 10 -20 years.

when we quit public canola breeding in this country , canola was not 14$ /lb
that and the cost of conventional chemicals , controlled by the same folks was 5 times what it is now.

we have been herded into 70$/ acre canola seed .
and our escape route has been closed up.


we may start at 14$ bu. wheat and pea seed .
but once the noose tightens , what is there to stop 70--80 $ / acre wheat seed .
with wheat and peas at that , canola may as well be 120$.


we have been outplayed , with canola seed
and now you want to do it with all seeds.

I can certainly understand seed
Growers incentive to push to curtail farmers rights.
If we have to use certified
Seed every year or 3 years.

[HITTGrapevine]

How much cheaper Red Winter gets hidden in the CWRS class? As long as end user specs are met does it matter how much of which class makes up the shipment?

Something seed taxes won't affect.

a great question. bravo!
the answer may never be known.
ghcs sell on spec to who ever will buy.
no class requirements, no grade, no class ...only to spec.
spec consists of odds and sods...some CWRS, some CNHR, some CPS, some CWGP
that's called margin