Seed Synergy... what does our Canadian seed system.. need to do?

[furrowtickler]

Furrowtickler,
Our farm pedigreed seed production... is a matter of heritage... not profit based. As A CSGA member for 40 years... producing high quality planting seed is a matter of farm practice... not driven by profit. If 25% of our pedigreed seed production is not seeded as planting seed... it normally is not because of purity... we will not pedigree a crop that is impure... or of poor germination. Lack of demand for a variety... is the normal reason pedigreed seed is dumped as commercial grain... we are required to forecast demand often 2-3 years before planting seed sales... which is often harder for us to figure out before real seed demand actually is a market reality. Easier for Commercial growers to identify real increased value of a variety... after it has been tested through the pedigreed seed multiplication phase of introduction to grain farmers.

Again Tom that’s all good , I am not against what you do , it takes time and money to produce seed
But yet again , the absolute main point is ignored ..... this is going to cost the primary producers a lot of money we don’t have in growing cereals . That’s the point you won’t address.
An average farm will be $30,000 to $50,000 more for seed ... unless I am wrong .... where is that going to come from ? It’s a simple question you refuse to answer.

[TOM4CWB]

furrowtickler,
As I have said... and repeated... If there is no added value in seeds that become available... do not spend the extra resources to buy the variety. Simple. The ability to collect 'Intellectual Property' provided by plant breeders... exists today... without any modifications to the levy and royalty system in Canada. Distribution of the R&D funding sources/amounts is an arguing point. AC Barrie Wheat... is a good example of just how far varieties have advanced in the past 30 years. 7-15% looks to be the productivity gains... with real advancements in disease tolerance and agronomic efficiency... hard to claim real measurable change.
Has the real value to the grains sector actually been 11 to 1 ROI... hard to see that as a realistic outcome of the 100's of millions spent on cereal R&D. Soybeans and corn... have seen the big productivity gains over the past 30 years... the US average yearly production numbers are proof.
Canola is also a major benefactor of R&D in Canada. The genome of cereals is much more difficult to manipulate.

Again Tom that’s all good , I am not against what you do , it takes time and money to produce seed
But yet again , the absolute main point is ignored ..... this is going to cost the primary producers a lot of money we don’t have in growing cereals . That’s the point you won’t address.
An average farm will be $30,000 to $50,000 more for seed ... unless I am wrong .... where is that going to come from ? It’s a simple question you refuse to answer.

[furrowtickler]

furrowtickler,
As I have said... and repeated... If there is no added value in seeds that become available... do not spend the extra resources to buy the variety. Simple. The ability to collect 'Intellectual Property' provided by plant breeders... exists today... without any modifications to the levy and royalty system in Canada. Distribution of the R&D funding sources/amounts is an arguing point. AC Barrie Wheat... is a good example of just how far varieties have advanced in the past 30 years. 7-15% looks to be the productivity gains... with real advancements in disease tolerance and agronomic efficiency... hard to claim real measurable change.
Has the real value to the grains sector actually been 11 to 1 ROI... hard to see that as a realistic outcome of the 100's of millions spent on cereal R&D. Soybeans and corn... have seen the big productivity gains over the past 30 years... the US average yearly production numbers are proof.
Canola is also a major benefactor of R&D in Canada. The genome of cereals is much more difficult to manipulate.

Under this system we will virtually have no choice In the long term Tom , you know that .

[TOM4CWB]

Farmaholic,
For seed marketing, much of our pedigreed seed is marketed... through pools that multiple seed growers contribute seed stocks to. We strive to provide a good selection of promising varieties...
Then...depending on the choices planting seed consumers[grain farmers,wholesale sales to other seed retailers] after spring, remaining stocks of surplus pedigreed seed in inventory ... again after spring seeding... these then are sold as commercial grain if it appears to be the best option to the individual seed grower, who owns that particular excess pedigreed seed inventory.
Therefore only actual pedigreed planted seed that was sold.. is revenue for the yearly marketing pool... not the individuals seed stocks remaining.
As Secan Royalties paid... are pooled in this non-profit seed co.... Secan bids for new varieties... to provide new choices for future seed varieties... Secan is able to contract with individual plant breeders. Brandon wheat is a Secan variety... Royalties we seed growers and sellers collect... go 100% back to Secan.

Our seed retailers and contractors also deal in other seed companies varieties as well... like: Canterra, Alliance, FP Genetics, Northstar, Seednet... and also seed canola companies...
Working on providing best selections possible... for planting seed buyers in our region... therefore we do grow many multiple varieties... trying to provide the best genetics for our local grain farmers wanting to buy planting seed each year.
Sincerely,
Tom

Geez Tom, hardly seems worth the effort, I guess I'll have to take your word.

50% cert sold as commercial because seed quality can't be met? Picked the wrong variety, hence no one wants it? Asking too much(after royalties, cleaning and handling, certification and inspection costs are all accounted for)?

I can honestly say I don't understand the "co-op" marketing thing....are you wholesaling it to a "Co-op" retailer or are you talking the Secan Co-operative dividend type payment.

Thanks in advance.

[walterm]

Tom do you have to buy new seed every year or can you seed your own Certified Seed and then sell it's product as certified seed or seed it again and sell the next years production as Certified? Honestly don't know how the system works!

[bucket]

Farmaholic,
For seed marketing, much of our pedigreed seed is marketed... through pools that multiple seed growers contribute seed stocks to. We strive to provide a good selection of promising varieties...
Then...depending on the choices planting seed consumers[grain farmers,wholesale sales to other seed retailers] after spring, remaining stocks of surplus pedigreed seed in inventory ... again after spring seeding... these then are sold as commercial grain if it appears to be the best option to the individual seed grower, who owns that particular excess pedigreed seed inventory.
Therefore only actual pedigreed planted seed that was sold.. is revenue for the yearly marketing pool... not the individuals seed stocks remaining.
As Secan Royalties paid... are pooled in this non-profit seed co.... Secan bids for new varieties... to provide new choices for future seed varieties... Secan is able to contract with individual plant breeders. Brandon wheat is a Secan variety... Royalties we seed growers and sellers collect... go 100% back to Secan.

Our seed retailers and contractors also deal in other seed companies varieties as well... like: Canterra, Alliance, FP Genetics, Northstar, Seednet... and also seed canola companies...
Working on providing best selections possible... for planting seed buyers in our region... therefore we do grow many multiple varieties... trying to provide the best genetics for our local grain farmers wanting to buy planting seed each year.
Sincerely,
Tom

Farmaholic....

this is why seed people like TOM4HIMSELF sells common seed for a premium over market prices.....that way nothing for the coop.....

There is nothing wrong with older varieties with average production when the ****ing transportion system can't handle more production...


Maybe you should try another hunger strike for your seed tax lobby, Tom?

[farmaholic]

Farmaholic....

this is why seed people like TOM4HIMSELF sells common seed for a premium over market prices.....that way nothing for the coop.....

There is nothing wrong with older varieties with average production when the ****ing transportion system can't handle more production...


Maybe you should try another hunger strike for your seed tax lobby, Tom?

Are you saying some seed growers might be "brown bagging" their own certified seed?

Hmmm? Interesting concept. Less money for Breeder's R&D

[Guest]

Wmoebis,
It cannot be absolutely proved... BUT
Triffid contamination appears to have been magnified through plant breeding stocks... after being contaminated with the triffid genetics at the top levels... then spread through the breeder seed/pedigreed seed system ... with contamination very difficult to identify...
years of reproduction went by[perhaps over 10 years]...
Then it was very difficult and costly to completely rebuild seed varieties and stocks from the top down.

very , very, very hard to figure who ****ed the flax market up with triffid ( that nobody. ****ing wanted anyway , except for the leach pricks that wanted to sell it) lol , why didn't they put their god damn ex rcmp force on it , no money in it for them I guess
but very easy to go after some farmer who brown bagged seed
in the end they just said "**** it , farmers can pay for the next ten years"
you lost all your credibility when you laid that cost on us

[walterm]

very , very, very hard to figure who ****ed the flax market up with triffid ( that nobody. ****ing wanted anyway , except for the leach pricks that wanted to sell it) lol , why didn't they put their god damn ex rcmp force on it , no money in it for them I guess
but very easy to go after some farmer who brown bagged seed
in the end they just said "**** it , farmers can pay for the next ten years"
you lost all your credibility when you laid that cost on us

Have heard 2 plausible theories:
1- There was never any Triffid to begin with it was just a made up issue to see what reaction would be and how hard it would be to flush an entire system to get rid of old stock and bring in all new. Fast forward PBR UPOV91 and what we are facing today.

2 - We know that only a few seed growers had access to Triffid in the first place and they were growers that would give seed industry and maybe some producer groups a bad name if they were held accountable so cover up implemented.

On another note end of this month is when Grain Companies have to have CNHR flushed out as CWRS. I wonder if it is all gone and accounted for. Will there be a full 3rd party audit of whole system?

[furrowtickler]

You bet seed growers brown bag !

They also sell diseased seed or seed that doesn't germinate !

Some of the worst seed is the seed that gets sold to Farmers !

Sorry wiseguy ... that’s simply not true .
There are many seed growers in my area, and this statement of yours is no different than the b/S from some that we all doused our crops in glyphosate, or we all just throw massive amounts of N fertilizer around to kill the climate ... exaggeration to hurt others business... that borders on defamation..... there is no need to over exaggerate what is most likely very isolated incidents .
This is part of the negative issue with this Ag site that is disturbing.
Let’s have discussions, we will never all agree but let’s not intentionally try to crucify each other ... especially those of us who actually farm here and try to raise a family .

[bucket]

Have heard 2 plausible theories:
1- There was never any Triffid to begin with it was just a made up issue to see what reaction would be and how hard it would be to flush an entire system to get rid of old stock and bring in all new. Fast forward PBR UPOV91 and what we are facing today.

2 - We know that only a few seed growers had access to Triffid in the first place and they were growers that would give seed industry and maybe some producer groups a bad name if they were held accountable so cover up implemented.

On another note end of this month is when Grain Companies have to have CNHR flushed out as CWRS. I wonder if it is all gone and accounted for. Will there be a full 3rd party audit of whole system?

There is only CNHR on the prairies. ...it's all exported as CWRS. ..and they gave a little more time to blend it all off...

Tiffid was a result of irresponsible seed growers......keeping seed to sell as common in a pinch....

It was supposed to have been all flushed out prior to the issue's a few years later....someone didn't and then the breeders ****ed it up as well. ...but they sent the bill to farmers ....since it was so easy ....why not a seed tax....

[TOM4CWB]

Waltern,
Breeder seed are distributed directly from plant breeders; through seed co's that own[are responsible for] a specific variety. Select seed growers [who go through 5 years of CFIA oversight or 'probation' seed production...to earn this Select grower status]
Select seed growers can then multiply the bag of breeder seed to a maximum further 4 select generations...
....or demote any time to foundation status when needed at any of these select generations..
then foundation status seed usually seeded to produce Registered status seed...
then registered seed results in certified seed...
At each generational level maintaining specified purity of the variety being produced for the stated generation of pedigreed seed being grown.
Seed stocks are issued a 'crop certificate' for each field grown each year... with field inspections for purity required by 3rd party crop inspectors checking each field each year.
The Canada Seeds Act regulates these regulations... administered by the CSGA...who issues the Crop Certificates... after crop field inspections are submitted and checked against regulated standards.
Seed stocks of any generation... with the permission of the Seed co... can be transferred to another CSGA seed grower.

Tom do you have to buy new seed every year or can you seed your own Certified Seed and then sell it's product as certified seed or seed it again and sell the next years production as Certified? Honestly don't know how the system works!