Electricity again

[jimmy]

I had a solar package signed up to supply all my power but Saskpower proved again it doesn’t want competition regardless even if it is good for the environment. Got to go and throw some ties into my boiler.

[sawfly1]

I thought ,somebody said it was 20 centskwh in Alberta.
If that is wrong .
I apologize.
That is what I get being too
Lazy to Google it.
My bad.

[chuckChuck]

If you drive south of Minot ND to Bismarck you will see hundreds of windmills. This in a strongly red republican ND. I am not sure who owns all the windmills whether they are privately owned or cooperatively owned utilities.

Take a look at the following links to see that North Dakota is indeed a top producer of wind energy. How could all this wind energy exist if it wasn't economical? This flys in the face of all the negativity expressed on Agriville about renewable generation of electricity.

Some people have the misconception that renewables can't co-exist with base load sources and still be a cheaper cleaner option. Obviously they can and North Dakota is making them work.

https://www.grandforksherald.com/business/energy-and-mining/4492366-north-dakota-looking-meet-its-wind-energy-potential

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_North_Dakota

Wind power in North Dakota

North Dakota is a leading U.S. state in wind power generation, with 21.5 percent of all in state generated electricity in 2016 powered by wind.[1] As of the end of 2017, 2996 megawatts (MW) of generation capacity had been installed for wind power in North Dakota.[1] Additional capacity had been limited by transmission line constraints until the completion of a transmission line from Fargo to central Minnesota in 2015.[2] Additional wind farms are once again planned for the state.[3]

Very favorable wind conditions in the state enable wind farms to achieve capacity factors in excess of 40 percent. The Thunder Spirit wind farm, completed in 2015, is expected to have a capacity factor greater than 45 percent.[4][5]

[AlbertaFarmer5]

If you drive south of Minot ND to Bismarck you will see hundreds of windmills. This in a strongly red republican ND. I am not sure who owns all the windmills whether they are privately owned or cooperatively owned utilities.

Take a look at the following links to see that North Dakota is indeed a top producer of wind energy. How could all this wind energy exist if it wasn't economical? This flys in the face of all the negativity expressed on Agriville about renewable generation of electricity.

Some people have the misconception that renewables can't co-exist with base load sources and still be a cheaper cleaner option. Obviously they can and North Dakota is making them work.

https://www.grandforksherald.com/business/energy-and-mining/4492366-north-dakota-looking-meet-its-wind-energy-potential

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_North_Dakota

Wind power in North Dakota

North Dakota is a leading U.S. state in wind power generation, with 21.5 percent of all in state generated electricity in 2016 powered by wind.[1] As of the end of 2017, 2996 megawatts (MW) of generation capacity had been installed for wind power in North Dakota.[1] Additional capacity had been limited by transmission line constraints until the completion of a transmission line from Fargo to central Minnesota in 2015.[2] Additional wind farms are once again planned for the state.[3]

Very favorable wind conditions in the state enable wind farms to achieve capacity factors in excess of 40 percent. The Thunder Spirit wind farm, completed in 2015, is expected to have a capacity factor greater than 45 percent.[4][5]

Excellent news, so I can presume that you must have some evidence that North Dakotan's are now enjoying lower(relative) power bills than the backwards hicks elsewhere who have refused to embrace this cheaper technology?








































I will get you started in case you are having trouble finding sources of info:
For the U.S. as a whole, electricity prices rose 7 percent while electricity from solar and wind grew from two to eight percent from 2009 to 2017
In North Dakota, electricity prices rose 40 percent while electricity from solar and wind grew from nine to 27 percent between 2009 and 2017

From: https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/04/25/yes-solar-and-wind-really-do-increase-electricity-prices-and-for-inherently-physical-reasons/#50b4da1017e8 https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/04/25/yes-solar-and-wind-really-do-increase-electricity-prices-and-for-inherently-physical-reasons/#50b4da1017e8

Sorry for getting involved, bus it is difficult to ignore when someone with an agenda presents half of the story, and avoids all facts that run counter to their biases.

[Guest]

I have nothing against renewables , just don't knock down perfectly good coal fired generators just for a photo op

[Wink73]

One of the things that Ralpk Klein did that I disagreed with was the privatization of the power grid. Now I consider myself right of center and a free marketer but I didn't feel Alberta was a large enough market to have real competition in power pricing. I believe Ralph didn't want the government investment and debt that would have been required to expand Alberta electricity grid so he sold it off. Being a hog farmer at the time I wasn't very impressed because the price of electricity certainly did go up, I was much happier when it was Alberta Power. And yes Grassfarmer they certainly made moronic decisions on pricing policy. But how is that any different than today? We are going to close down modern coal fired power plants that provide stable cost efficient sources of power and replace them with a combination of wind turbines and solar panels back stopped by natural gas. So we are going to build 3 sources of generation to replace the one that already exists. Plus we have to compensate the owners of the coal power plants for forcing to shut them down long before the end of their life cycle. So you are correct they screwed up in the past and bad government decision making continues today in my opinion.

Like.👆🏻👆🏻👍🏻

[chuckChuck]

Excellent news, so I can presume that you must have some evidence that North Dakotan's are now enjoying lower(relative) power bills than the backwards hicks elsewhere who have refused to embrace this cheaper technology?


I will get you started in case you are having trouble finding sources of info:
For the U.S. as a whole, electricity prices rose 7 percent while electricity from solar and wind grew from two to eight percent from 2009 to 2017
In North Dakota, electricity prices rose 40 percent while electricity from solar and wind grew from nine to 27 percent between 2009 and 2017

From: https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/04/25/yes-solar-and-wind-really-do-increase-electricity-prices-and-for-inherently-physical-reasons/#50b4da1017e8 https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/04/25/yes-solar-and-wind-really-do-increase-electricity-prices-and-for-inherently-physical-reasons/#50b4da1017e8

Sorry for getting involved, bus it is difficult to ignore when someone with an agenda presents half of the story, and avoids all facts that run counter to their biases.

As we have discussed before generation is only a portion of the cost of providing electricity to consumers. There is a whole lot of infrastructure in the grid. Generation costs could go down and grid expansion and maintenance costs could go up, still causing an increase in electricity prices.

In response to your question where is the evidence for lower costs? The evidence is in the hundreds of windmills already built in North Dakota and Saskatchewan and the plan for more.

Utilities obviously do their own analysis and make decisions based on their own situation. If Sask power and several North Dakota Utilities in Conservative run jurisdictions are heavily investing in wind, then there must be s strong business case for wind energy. That is all the evidence that anyone should need, unless you consider yourself smarter than the utilities?

[Braveheart]

As we have discussed before generation is only a portion of the cost of providing electricity to consumers. There is a whole lot of infrastructure in the grid. Generation costs could go down and grid expansion and maintenance costs could go up, still causing an increase in electricity prices.

In response to your question where is the evidence for lower costs? The evidence is in the hundreds of windmills already built in North Dakota and Saskatchewan and the plan for more.

Utilities obviously do their own analysis and make decisions based on their own situation. If Sask power and several North Dakota Utilities in Conservative run jurisdictions are heavily investing in wind, then there must be s strong business case for wind energy. That is all the evidence that anyone should need, unless you consider yourself smarter than the utilities?

As someone who had the opportunity once to "peek behind the curtain", I can tell you that the wind projects in North Dakota have been driven primarily by the desire to get the carbon credits that go with the projects. Heavy emitters would rather buy the credits than throttle emissions.

Nice. Unless, you have to farm around them like my neighbours do, or have to stare at ugly windmills like I do, or you're a migrating songbird.

[burnt]

There is zero evidence that commercial wind and solar are affordable, more sustainable, or cheaper than conventional generation.

There is plenty of support, though, that they are not only more costly, but completely unaffordable and unsustainable.

This is proven by the fact that not one person who has invested in solar or wind generation would do it to supply their own needs, unless there were other mitigating factors, such as accessibility to grid, that were in effect.

Commercial wind and solar electrical production are purely politically and ideologically driven.

When there is someone who is constantly beating the "renewables" drum, there can be only a couple of reasons - they are making money from the pain and loss of others, or they are abjectly, profoundly, irredeemably stupid, and likely ineducable.

[chuckChuck]

As someone who had the opportunity once to "peek behind the curtain", I can tell you that the wind projects in North Dakota have been driven primarily by the desire to get the carbon credits that go with the projects. Heavy emitters would rather buy the credits than throttle emissions.

Nice. Unless, you have to farm around them like my neighbours do, or have to stare at ugly windmills like I do, or you're a migrating songbird.

Glad to hear you are concerned about song birds. Do you have cats, windows, powers lines, drive much, spray pesticides, clear bush, breakup grass land, because they all affect the song bird population.

Yes and many farmers farm around ugly oil wells and in some cases the companies stop paying for the lease.

If you look at the costs of wind and solar in many jurisdictions the costs have come way down and are now cheaper than new coal and competitive with gas. We still need base load hydro and fossil sources to run intermittent renewables.

Saskatchewan is trying geo-thermal.

[bucket]

Glad to hear you are concerned about song birds. Do you have cats, windows, powers lines, drive much, spray pesticides, clear bush, breakup grass land, because they all affect the song bird population.

Yes and many farmers farm around ugly oil wells and in some cases the companies stop paying for the lease.

If you look at the costs of wind and solar in many jurisdictions the costs have come way down and are now cheaper than new coal and competitive with gas. We still need base load hydro and fossil sources to run intermittent renewables.

Saskatchewan is trying geo-thermal.

The government is trying geo thermal.....Trudeau announced 26 million for that project....taxpayers money...

And yet they have trouble finding dollars for Seed research into the future?????

Which do think is more sustainable????

[chuckChuck]

Levelized Cost and Levelized Avoided Cost of New Generation
Resources in the Annual Energy Outlook 2018

https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/pdf/electricity_generation.pdf