Electricity again

[chuckChuck]

A5 you are willfully wrong on several counts and quietly ignore the fact that fossil energy also receives generous subsidies and has external environmental and health costs which means that we are not paying for its full costs. The oil industry has a massive multi billion dollar liability in your province for orphaned and abandoned wells. Hmmmm. You don't have much to say about that do you? All you worry about is the renewables getting any little bit of support! You are an Alberta sized hypocrite!

I don't think there are tax credits for wind generation in Saskatchewan. Ask Sask Power?

So your arguments quickly fall apart.

And even in the face of subsidies for fossil fuels and renewables agriculture also receives subsidies.

The whole government mandated biofuel sector in the US and Canada has been responsible for keeping some grain prices higher than they normally would be.

So as a recipient of taxpayers subsidies and support, it is quite ironic that you are so strongly opposed to renewables receiving any kind of support when you as a grain producer benefit from bio-fuels.

But not surprising coming from you. Aren't you too busy to provide evidence? You seem to post a lot for such a busy guy! LOL

Read this:
Levelized Cost and Levelized Avoided Cost of New Generation
Resources in the Annual Energy Outlook 2018

https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/pdf/electricity_generation.pdf

[AlbertaFarmer5]

So, after months of searching you still can't find even one tropical island where the sun always shines and the wind blows all night where they previously had to import all of their energy via fossil fuels on a boat, who have seen lower costs due to replacing said fossil fuels with renewables? I thought this was going to be an easy one for you.

And, as usual, you did not address any of the points I made, just attacked.

[oneoff]

If you drive south of Minot ND to Bismarck you will see hundreds of windmills. This in a strongly red republican ND. I am not sure who owns all the windmills whether they are privately owned or cooperatively owned utilities.

Take a look at the following links to see that North Dakota is indeed a top producer of wind energy. How could all this wind energy exist if it wasn't economical? This flys in the face of all the negativity expressed on Agriville about renewable generation of electricity.

Some people have the misconception that renewables can't co-exist with base load sources and still be a cheaper cleaner option. Obviously they can and North Dakota is making them work.

https://www.grandforksherald.com/business/energy-and-mining/4492366-north-dakota-looking-meet-its-wind-energy-potential

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_North_Dakota

Wind power in North Dakota

North Dakota is a leading U.S. state in wind power generation, with 21.5 percent of all in state generated electricity in 2016 powered by wind.[1] As of the end of 2017, 2996 megawatts (MW) of generation capacity had been installed for wind power in North Dakota.[1] Additional capacity had been limited by transmission line constraints until the completion of a transmission line from Fargo to central Minnesota in 2015.[2] Additional wind farms are once again planned for the state.[3]

Very favorable wind conditions in the state enable wind farms to achieve capacity factors in excess of 40 percent. The Thunder Spirit wind farm, completed in 2015, is expected to have a capacity factor greater than 45 percent.[4][5]

Now I suppose the inference being made is that ND is right next to Sask and that their wind resources could all be duplicated in each and every region of Sask to replicate its success; of course when detractors and naysayers are silenced and suggestion made that they refrain from commenting.

Well chuck said it all in his quote above....south of Minot. Look North of Minot and you don't see the windmills. Maybe for the same reasons the one present on an acreage (a few years ago) a few miles east of chuck isn't still there because the owners apparently decided a solar array might better replace a new windmill that didn't apparently work out.

Anyway; some reliable data on ND wind speeds at 80 m heights is given in the link just below. Could somebody please post the map download from that page. As a picture is usually worth a thousand words; just maybe chuck could possibly gain some knowledge about how an overlay of topography could
possibly interact with more than a one track mind to allow a bit of knowledge and common sense to trickle through.

https://windexchange.energy.gov/states/nd

[oneoff]

If you drive south of Minot ND to Bismarck you will see hundreds of windmills. This in a strongly red republican ND. I am not sure who owns all the windmills whether they are privately owned or cooperatively owned utilities.

Take a look at the following links to see that North Dakota is indeed a top producer of wind energy. How could all this wind energy exist if it wasn't economical? This flys in the face of all the negativity expressed on Agriville about renewable generation of electricity.

Some people have the misconception that renewables can't co-exist with base load sources and still be a cheaper cleaner option. Obviously they can and North Dakota is making them work.

https://www.grandforksherald.com/business/energy-and-mining/4492366-north-dakota-looking-meet-its-wind-energy-potential

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_North_Dakota

Wind power in North Dakota

North Dakota is a leading U.S. state in wind power generation, with 21.5 percent of all in state generated electricity in 2016 powered by wind.[1] As of the end of 2017, 2996 megawatts (MW) of generation capacity had been installed for wind power in North Dakota.[1] Additional capacity had been limited by transmission line constraints until the completion of a transmission line from Fargo to central Minnesota in 2015.[2] Additional wind farms are once again planned for the state.[3]

Very favorable wind conditions in the state enable wind farms to achieve capacity factors in excess of 40 percent. The Thunder Spirit wind farm, completed in 2015, is expected to have a capacity factor greater than 45 percent.[4][5]

Now I suppose the inference being made is that ND is right next to Sask and that their wind resources could all be duplicated in each and every region of Sask to replicate its success; of course when detractors and naysayers are silenced and suggestion made that they refrain from commenting.

Well chuck said it all in his quote above....south of Minot. Look North of Minot and you don't see the windmills. Maybe for the same reasons the one present on an acreage (a few years ago) a few miles east of chuck isn't still there because the owners apparently decided a solar array might better replace a new windmill that didn't apparently work out.

Anyway; some reliable data on ND wind speeds at 80 m heights is given in the link just below. Could somebody please post the map download from that page. As a picture is usually worth a thousand words; just maybe chuck could possibly gain some knowledge about how an overlay of topography could
possibly interact with more than a one track mind to allow a bit of knowledge and common sense to trickle through.

https://windexchange.energy.gov/states/nd

[chuckChuck]

Wind companies do wind studies before choosing the best places for turbines. Just like oil companies do seismograph in order to place oil wells. Lots of open land with rolling hills and grassland south of Minot.

It shows up as an excellent location on the attached map.

[jimmy]

I have travelled by all those windmills in the dakotas and Minnesota and had a chat with a land owner in Minnesota that had a few of them. He said it was a company from California that built them and is selling the power from them and in 20 years they then turn ownership over to the landowner. He said their lawyers where not smart enough to read between the lines on the contract or where in bed with the wind generator company as they the land owner will be responsible for everything after the 20 years is up.
Who is responsible for removal and reclamation of these wind and solar farms in Saskatchewan?

[chuckChuck]

I have travelled by all those windmills in the dakotas and Minnesota and had a chat with a land owner in Minnesota that had a few of them. He said it was a company from California that built them and is selling the power from them and in 20 years they then turn ownership over to the landowner. He said their lawyers where not smart enough to read between the lines on the contract or where in bed with the wind generator company as they the land owner will be responsible for everything after the 20 years is up.
Who is responsible for removal and reclamation of these wind and solar farms in Saskatchewan?

Sounds similar to what happens with the oil industry with abandoned and orphaned facilities.

Saskpower is putting up most of the utility scale wind farms so I would think they will be responsible.

Why would any landowner sign a contract that turned over to them, a very large scale turbine that requires lots of specialized maintenance? That would be a big mistake.

Many of the wind mills in North Dakota look like they are owned by Cooperative utilities.

Coal plants have a limited lifespan and require regular maintenance as well. A lot of the old coal mines in southern Saskatchewan will never be cleaned up. Fortunately new ones require reclamation.

Take a look at a google satellite image of Estevan and area.

[jimmy]

Sounds similar to what happens with the oil industry with abandoned and orphaned facilities.

Saskpower is putting up most of the utility scale wind farms so I would think they will be responsible.

Why would any landowner sign a contract that turned over to them, a very large scale turbine that requires lots of specialized maintenance? That would be a big mistake.

Many of the wind mills in North Dakota look like they are owned by Cooperative utilities.

Coal plants have a limited lifespan and require regular maintenance as well. A lot of the old coal mines in southern Saskatchewan will never be cleaned up. Fortunately new ones require reclamation.

Take a look at a google satellite image of Estevan and area.

I would like to hear from a actual land owner in sask with wind power to who is responsible for clean up after there service life is done. Is it written in the contract?
If I owned land in the Estavan area that is being mined I would insist it not be reclaimed. It’s right full of wildlife lots of grass and trees and full of crystal clear water in the bottom. It’s really rugged but it looks like it produces more grass than the reclaimed land does. Again not sure what the water quality is but there’s lots of it. It would be nice to hear from someone from the area that could educate us on that topic.

[jimmy]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1350811/In-China-true-cost-Britains-clean-green-wind-power-experiment-Pollution-disastrous-scale.html


Are coal mines any worse than this?

[malleefarmer]

Guess the point of thread was that in australia anyway renewables and fossil fueled electricity have to co exist to a certain extent.

Coal for base load say 30% to 40% renewable the rest perhaps.

Lack of wind was a issue when this was written. The big solar farms ran short. Hence the diesel powered generators had to kick in but still a shortfall.

Perfect storm of 46 plus celcius temps as well which doesnt happen to often.

Today widespread 38c to 40c see how the system handles it. Not as extreme as last week.

In victoria on same day govt asked all people not to use household applainces during afternnoon and early evening turn aircons up to 24c rather than 18c asked supermarkets etc to turn up freezers asked bussinesses to to knock of work a hour early to save power for the state.

Most said get stuffed we pay shitloads for power were gonna use it.....bit of head in nthe sand attitude. If everybody did what was asked maybe there wouldnt have been a issue.

Bussiness of course said to govt are you gonna pay for hour lost of productivity.

Maybe mods we better wind this thread up.