Electricity again

[malleefarmer]

Yesterday was a record for temps here in SA and Vic.

Power demand was a record.

We had emergency diesel generators kick in for first time , plus now think we had power come in from NSW apparently. In such situations power generators set there own price it seems.

Wind farm storage battery stroage everything was used up yesterday.

Look at price per mw/hr and apparently just yesterday will add $60 to everyones power bills but will be done over a year so may not be noticed as much

Just dont know why renewables and coal or gas or nuclear cannot co exist., rather than current system which failed badly yesterday.

Some places in big smoke still no power 14 hours on poor elderly people.

Guess same may happen to you guys but in reverse extreme cold.

[Guest]

Hard to believe that we are heading that same road as australia took , just a few years later . Govts never learn . You need to cool as much as we need to heat our homes . And no stupid carbon tax will change that

[Guest]

Hope it cools for you , thats a bitch . Likely as bad as 40 below, or worse

[Hamloc]

Actually kind of surprised there is so little feedback on this thread. Our Federal Minister of Wind and Water Catherine McKenna if she has her wish will have Canada in the same boat. Supporters of renewable power continue to talk about how cheap and wonderful it is but you still need adequate dependable baseload to cope with periods of unusual demand. I certainly sympathize with you in Australia, government ideology has left you guys hanging!

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Actually kind of surprised there is so little feedback on this thread.

I made a New Years resolution here on Agriville to quit beating this dead horse. I left off with a request for Chuck, to provide an example of somewhere in the world where the addition of "Cheap" alternative power has resulted in lower power bills. Not models, but real world consumers. You can probably guess what the answer has been, but perhaps it is just taking a long time to search.

[Oliver88]

I made a New Years resolution here on Agriville to quit beating this dead horse. I left off with a request for Chuck, to provide an example of somewhere in the world where the addition of "Cheap" alternative power has resulted in lower power bills. Not models, but real world consumers. You can probably guess what the answer has been, but perhaps it is just taking a long time to search.

Google search engines only have so much information.
It is sad that we live in such a cold climate and foolish governments are planning to shut down efficient power plants.

[blackpowder]

Thanks for posting real world experience on here Mallee.
Prohibitive costs and shortages are sure to arrive here soon enough if they haven't already.
Public will blame everything and everyone but themselves of course.
I try to avoid these topics myself. Shit this hard to understand isn't good for my health. I'm staying angry but letting go.

[grassfarmer]

Actually kind of surprised there is so little feedback on this thread.

What's hilarious about the feedback is that it completely misunderstands the point of the post. An exceptionally hot spell = high demand leading to the high price paid to some generators. Although you'd all like to make it a post about how expensive renewables are and how the same thing will inevitably happen here and it's all Trudeaus fault the facts are rather different. With Australia being a laggard on renewable energy sources this is a post about how much the predominantly coal fired generation companies can charge when the need arises for their output.

It should be a familiar topic to Canadians who have been paying attention as the same thing was exposed in Alberta several years ago. The various generation companies bidding in their production at different rates from $zero for hydroelectric from BC (no ability to store it) to the extremely high rates offered by other more expensive forms of generation. Once the regulator accepted all the capacity bid ins needed from lowest price to highest price they turned around and paid all the generators the high price bid regardless of the fact companies were offering their output for zero $ on occasion. The chance to pass this free power onto Alberta citizens was forfeited to pad corporate pockets and AB consumers continue to pay for this fiasco every month in their power bills. You worry and speculate about what the crazy Liberals "might" do but you choose to ignore what the Conservative Government actually did! Blind ideology.

[oneoff]

Someone recently wrote "I made a New Years resolution here on Agriville to quit beating this dead horse. I left off with a request for Chuck, to provide an example of somewhere in the world where the addition of "Cheap" alternative power has resulted in lower power bills. Not models, but real world consumers. You can probably guess what the answer has been, but perhaps it is just taking a long time to search." Reply With Quote


[B]What I take from the original post is that a serious new problem with providing long term, functioning 100% of the time power supplies will in the future be commonly provided through buying power a through the"spot market"

And with reliance on 15% or 30% average uptime sources of generation; and wholesale adoption of this "cheap power"; it may well fair to factor in the odd KWH of electricity at $14,500 dollars. Whilst it may only occasionally happen...when it does....and indeed it will; any bean counter knows it takes a long long time to cost average (down) any amount of power required to be bought for 145,000 times more than what one might expect tis worth less than ten cents.

Welcome to the new world of insecurity and swings in volatility that plague insecure and untested waters.

And just think of those smart meters around the corner where you had better have some direct control of your 5HP aeration fan that may be consuming approx. 4000 watts per hour. You run that for an hour during prime spot price at 14,500 per KWH and your bill should be


WAIT FOR IT

$58,000 for an hour's use. Remember the data charges you used to rack up by watching a movie or two on some US telephone carrier if you don't believe its possible.


On the other hand would you prefer to "brownout" or "blackout" a province or country because you are too cheap to buy the shortage of power

[oneoff]

Where are the bidirectional meter readings of all those new solar array connected to the grid.

Remember that every month not connected or producing at the beginning of the decades long payout period has to be added to the tail end of production. Maybe the spread sheet didn't anticipate that reality.

[farming101]

Australia exports 57 MMT of LNG in 2017 and is running out of power at the same time.

[grassfarmer]

Oneoff, the prices quoted were for MWh not KWh so you're getting 1000 times more for your money than you figured.