Electricity again

[oneoff]

I see you are right grass.

That is $58.00 per hour for a 5 hp aeration fan run for exactly one hour at those rates. Sure it could well be in Australian dollars and sure you probably have a lot more than just one motor for a total load. But we will have smart metering for all because of factors such as spot prices needed to be paid to get through those cases where emergency plans come up short.


So you'll still agree with the principle that this spot price is very pricey for any electrical user. It's all in the fine print isn't it?


Maybe that's why Sask Power is limiting new bi directional metering (net metering) to 10 year terms plus a further possible extention of another 10 year term (but at whatever Sask Power wishes the conditions to be)
Here's a link to the download page for the present rules

https://www.saskpower.com/our-power-future/powering-2030/generating-power-as-an-individual/using-the-power-you-make/net-metering-program

[Guest]

What's hilarious about the feedback is that it completely misunderstands the point of the post. An exceptionally hot spell = high demand leading to the high price paid to some generators. Although you'd all like to make it a post about how expensive renewables are and how the same thing will inevitably happen here and it's all Trudeaus fault the facts are rather different. With Australia being a laggard on renewable energy sources this is a post about how much the predominantly coal fired generation companies can charge when the need arises for their output.

It should be a familiar topic to Canadians who have been paying attention as the same thing was exposed in Alberta several years ago. The various generation companies bidding in their production at different rates from $zero for hydroelectric from BC (no ability to store it) to the extremely high rates offered by other more expensive forms of generation. Once the regulator accepted all the capacity bid ins needed from lowest price to highest price they turned around and paid all the generators the high price bid regardless of the fact companies were offering their output for zero $ on occasion. The chance to pass this free power onto Alberta citizens was forfeited to pad corporate pockets and AB consumers continue to pay for this fiasco every month in their power bills. You worry and speculate about what the crazy Liberals "might" do but you choose to ignore what the Conservative Government actually did! Blind ideology.

I disagree grass , the post is really about shutting down perfectly good coal fired generators ?
I don't think you buy this renewable horseshit ? why do you keep it up ?
renewables will come , when they're ready . we saw what happened with something that wasn't ready ?
should of listened to Harper . he wasn't much better , but this is ****ing unreal

[Guest]

I see you are right grass.

That is $58.00 per hour for a 5 hp aeration fan run for exactly one hour at those rates. Sure it could well be in Australian dollars and sure you probably have a lot more than just one motor for a total load. But we will have smart metering for all because of factors such as spot prices needed to be paid to get through those cases where emergency plans come up short.


So you'll still agree with the principle that this spot price is very pricey for any electrical user. It's all in the fine print isn't it?


Maybe that's why Sask Power is limiting new bi directional metering (net metering) to 10 year terms plus a further possible extention of another 10 year term (but at whatever Sask Power wishes the conditions to be)
Here's a link to the download page for the present rules

https://www.saskpower.com/our-power-future/powering-2030/generating-power-as-an-individual/using-the-power-you-make/net-metering-program

australian dollars are almost identical to CAD

[AlbertaFarmer5]

I disagree grass , the post is really about shutting down perfectly good coal fired generators ?
I don't think you buy this renewable horseshit ? why do you keep it up ?
renewables will come , when they're ready . we saw what happened with something that wasn't ready ?
should of listened to Harper . he wasn't much better , but this is ****ing unreal

I am of the opinion that Grassfarmer mostly just likes to stir the pot. He seems much too smart to really buy into much of what he typically opines. It does make for more interesting discussion, otherwise all we have is a bunch of farmers all agreeing with each other and a few left wing nuts with no clue or credibility.

[Integrity_Farmer]

Australia energy situation by juice media

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sitPeRlTdNs

[grassfarmer]

How convenient none of you chose to comment on what happened in Alberta. Maybe someone can explain to me why this was acceptable before you all vote PC again? The Conservative, free-enterprise, market led bastion of Alberta is sounding awfully socialisty here as they ensured every company got paid the same regardless of production cost.

http://retasite.wordpress.com/2012/01/27/power-price-is-not-market-based-joe-anglin/ http://https://retasite.wordpress.com/2012/01/27/power-price-is-not-market-based-joe-anglin/

[Hamloc]

One of the things that Ralpk Klein did that I disagreed with was the privatization of the power grid. Now I consider myself right of center and a free marketer but I didn't feel Alberta was a large enough market to have real competition in power pricing. I believe Ralph didn't want the government investment and debt that would have been required to expand Alberta electricity grid so he sold it off. Being a hog farmer at the time I wasn't very impressed because the price of electricity certainly did go up, I was much happier when it was Alberta Power. And yes Grassfarmer they certainly made moronic decisions on pricing policy. But how is that any different than today? We are going to close down modern coal fired power plants that provide stable cost efficient sources of power and replace them with a combination of wind turbines and solar panels back stopped by natural gas. So we are going to build 3 sources of generation to replace the one that already exists. Plus we have to compensate the owners of the coal power plants for forcing to shut them down long before the end of their life cycle. So you are correct they screwed up in the past and bad government decision making continues today in my opinion.

[sawfly1]

Yes grass
The reason for no response ,
it is kind of an incoveint truth.
About Alberta's power cost structure .

Does not fit the agenda of blaming the left for everything.
To be honest, I had no idea Alberta paid that much .

I am a big user , electric heat in house , 3 or 4 fans running all fall. I would sure hate to double the cost.

If anything should stay a public utility .
Power should .

Generation and transmission, driven by need and logistics
Not conservative good old boy deals

[jimmy]

When I compare my power bill from Saskatchewan 6800$ compared to what it would be in Alberta 4600$. I would rather have the 2200$ in my pocket.

[jimmy]

I had a solar package signed up to supply all my power but Saskpower proved again it doesn’t want competition regardless even if it is good for the environment. Got to go and throw some ties into my boiler.

[sawfly1]

I thought ,somebody said it was 20 centskwh in Alberta.
If that is wrong .
I apologize.
That is what I get being too
Lazy to Google it.
My bad.

[chuckChuck]

If you drive south of Minot ND to Bismarck you will see hundreds of windmills. This in a strongly red republican ND. I am not sure who owns all the windmills whether they are privately owned or cooperatively owned utilities.

Take a look at the following links to see that North Dakota is indeed a top producer of wind energy. How could all this wind energy exist if it wasn't economical? This flys in the face of all the negativity expressed on Agriville about renewable generation of electricity.

Some people have the misconception that renewables can't co-exist with base load sources and still be a cheaper cleaner option. Obviously they can and North Dakota is making them work.

https://www.grandforksherald.com/business/energy-and-mining/4492366-north-dakota-looking-meet-its-wind-energy-potential

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_North_Dakota

Wind power in North Dakota

North Dakota is a leading U.S. state in wind power generation, with 21.5 percent of all in state generated electricity in 2016 powered by wind.[1] As of the end of 2017, 2996 megawatts (MW) of generation capacity had been installed for wind power in North Dakota.[1] Additional capacity had been limited by transmission line constraints until the completion of a transmission line from Fargo to central Minnesota in 2015.[2] Additional wind farms are once again planned for the state.[3]

Very favorable wind conditions in the state enable wind farms to achieve capacity factors in excess of 40 percent. The Thunder Spirit wind farm, completed in 2015, is expected to have a capacity factor greater than 45 percent.[4][5]

[AlbertaFarmer5]

If you drive south of Minot ND to Bismarck you will see hundreds of windmills. This in a strongly red republican ND. I am not sure who owns all the windmills whether they are privately owned or cooperatively owned utilities.

Take a look at the following links to see that North Dakota is indeed a top producer of wind energy. How could all this wind energy exist if it wasn't economical? This flys in the face of all the negativity expressed on Agriville about renewable generation of electricity.

Some people have the misconception that renewables can't co-exist with base load sources and still be a cheaper cleaner option. Obviously they can and North Dakota is making them work.

https://www.grandforksherald.com/business/energy-and-mining/4492366-north-dakota-looking-meet-its-wind-energy-potential

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_North_Dakota

Wind power in North Dakota

North Dakota is a leading U.S. state in wind power generation, with 21.5 percent of all in state generated electricity in 2016 powered by wind.[1] As of the end of 2017, 2996 megawatts (MW) of generation capacity had been installed for wind power in North Dakota.[1] Additional capacity had been limited by transmission line constraints until the completion of a transmission line from Fargo to central Minnesota in 2015.[2] Additional wind farms are once again planned for the state.[3]

Very favorable wind conditions in the state enable wind farms to achieve capacity factors in excess of 40 percent. The Thunder Spirit wind farm, completed in 2015, is expected to have a capacity factor greater than 45 percent.[4][5]

Excellent news, so I can presume that you must have some evidence that North Dakotan's are now enjoying lower(relative) power bills than the backwards hicks elsewhere who have refused to embrace this cheaper technology?








































I will get you started in case you are having trouble finding sources of info:
For the U.S. as a whole, electricity prices rose 7 percent while electricity from solar and wind grew from two to eight percent from 2009 to 2017
In North Dakota, electricity prices rose 40 percent while electricity from solar and wind grew from nine to 27 percent between 2009 and 2017

From: https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/04/25/yes-solar-and-wind-really-do-increase-electricity-prices-and-for-inherently-physical-reasons/#50b4da1017e8 https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/04/25/yes-solar-and-wind-really-do-increase-electricity-prices-and-for-inherently-physical-reasons/#50b4da1017e8

Sorry for getting involved, bus it is difficult to ignore when someone with an agenda presents half of the story, and avoids all facts that run counter to their biases.

[Guest]

I have nothing against renewables , just don't knock down perfectly good coal fired generators just for a photo op

[Wink73]

One of the things that Ralpk Klein did that I disagreed with was the privatization of the power grid. Now I consider myself right of center and a free marketer but I didn't feel Alberta was a large enough market to have real competition in power pricing. I believe Ralph didn't want the government investment and debt that would have been required to expand Alberta electricity grid so he sold it off. Being a hog farmer at the time I wasn't very impressed because the price of electricity certainly did go up, I was much happier when it was Alberta Power. And yes Grassfarmer they certainly made moronic decisions on pricing policy. But how is that any different than today? We are going to close down modern coal fired power plants that provide stable cost efficient sources of power and replace them with a combination of wind turbines and solar panels back stopped by natural gas. So we are going to build 3 sources of generation to replace the one that already exists. Plus we have to compensate the owners of the coal power plants for forcing to shut them down long before the end of their life cycle. So you are correct they screwed up in the past and bad government decision making continues today in my opinion.

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