A little gem from 1931

[burnt]

Let’s not forget when America Was Truly Great- the 1950s and 60s when their tax rates were Over 70%
Economy And Innovation was booming , leading the world

Then along come the Neo-cons - Reagan , Thatcher etc and now we have 8 people with more wealth than Millions, and they pay little if any taxes

Trickle down economics explained. “Don’t Piss on my leg and then telling me it’s raining”

Hmmm, not sure if you lump the Sock Boy prime minister in with "Neo-cons" perhaps - a trust fund baby that has his wealth stashed away in offshore accounts where the taxman can't reach it... or [B]Finance Minister Bill Morneau who has done the same, [B] or Paul Martin, the great Liberal Finance Minister credited with getting the budget under control, etc, all Neo-cons, eh?

Perhaps the problem isn't with the tax system?

Perhaps the problem lies in human nature that no tax scheme can solve?

I can't believe that you went down this regressive road. Well, yes I can.

[ajl]

Reality is that free enterprise market based capitalism has been in the history books for so long that nobody would recognize it if it did show up. Today's bizarre mixture of socialism and crony capitalism is FAR from free enterprise. Most likely do not have the skills to survive if free enterprise capitalism ever showed up and don't go believing that your going to be all right and it is the others who will struggle to survive. Government in various forms is over 70% of the Canuckistanian economy today. This includes everything from SM farmers to speculators who need the central banks to keep transferring wealth their way. You can increase GDP by doing more tax audits so it is not a credible way of measuring economic growth. Anyways the economy needs are hard reset but who want to go first.

[burnt]

ajl - "free enterprise market based capitalism" may be ambiguous these days, but it certainly is not dead and gone. In fact, although it is under attack and faces serious threats, I don't believe it is even on th3e endangered species list!

I think back over the days when I was young and ambitious with a certain sense of satisfaction - not because I was always successful or got rich, but I sure gave it the best darn shot I could.

I quit the off-farm job of logging in my mid-30s because of carpal tunnel syndrome. That's when things got tough - mortgages, family to feed, others to care for.

We were raising Holstein veal calves on a significant scale for teh day and it was not an easy row to hoe. I made the nerve-wracking 2 hr. trip to Toronto Stockyards once or twice a week with 15 calves per load. It seemed wasteful to come back home empty, so I looked for stuff to haul back.

Through a connection of mine, it turned out to be sharply discounted lumber which I peddled to farmers who made use of it. Then I started to use it for building wooden-deck hay wagons and round bale carriers. Sold just a ton of them over the next 5 or 6 years. Hired help one summer when it got to be more than I and our family could keep up to. I love free enterprise.

But then free enterprise kicked in again and my material price shot up and steel got cheap - I got squeezed out of the market by cheaper steel products.

But then I found other things to fabricate and life went on. Not always easy, and sometimes it was brutally tough - BRSV hit the calf barns, 33% mortality, but we got through it, badly battered. No bailouts.

Got ahead again, bought more land, sold it when it went nuts...

All to say that opportunity is out there if one has the ambition and guts to chase it. And if an inept operator like me can do it, then its open to almost anyone.

What is making it harder than anything else is the irrational level of regulation that we face in almost any industry.

[Klause]

What is making it harder than anything else is the irrational level of regulation that we face in almost any industry.

Yup.


We live in a time and erra where you can build a polywell in your basement, 3d-print almost anything you can imagine, and the skills, knowledge and communications infrastructure is pretty much world wide limitless.


Yet governments try and get in the way. Tax and regulate everything.

In the end, they do this to control competition and innovation... powerful corporate lobbies make sure of it.


Blind corporatism is not the same as free enterprise capitalism - not in any way shape or form. It is as evil, sinister and pervasive as socialism.

[the big wheel]

ajl - "free enterprise market based capitalism" may be ambiguous these days, but it certainly is not dead and gone. In fact, although it is under attack and faces serious threats, I don't believe it is even on th3e endangered species list!

I think back over the days when I was young and ambitious with a certain sense of satisfaction - not because I was always successful or got rich, but I sure gave it the best darn shot I could.

I quit the off-farm job of logging in my mid-30s because of carpal tunnel syndrome. That's when things got tough - mortgages, family to feed, others to care for.

We were raising Holstein veal calves on a significant scale for teh day and it was not an easy row to hoe. I made the nerve-wracking 2 hr. trip to Toronto Stockyards once or twice a week with 15 calves per load. It seemed wasteful to come back home empty, so I looked for stuff to haul back.

Through a connection of mine, it turned out to be sharply discounted lumber which I peddled to farmers who made use of it. Then I started to use it for building wooden-deck hay wagons and round bale carriers. Sold just a ton of them over the next 5 or 6 years. Hired help one summer when it got to be more than I and our family could keep up to. I love free enterprise.

But then free enterprise kicked in again and my material price shot up and steel got cheap - I got squeezed out of the market by cheaper steel products.

But then I found other things to fabricate and life went on. Not always easy, and sometimes it was brutally tough - BRSV hit the calf barns, 33% mortality, but we got through it, badly battered. No bailouts.

Got ahead again, bought more land, sold it when it went nuts...

All to say that opportunity is out there if one has the ambition and guts to chase it. And if an inept operator like me can do it, then its open to almost anyone.

What is making it harder than anything else is the irrational level of regulation that we face in almost any industry.

Your right about the regulations although sometimes they are needed the problem lies in how long the regulations take to get sorted out or approved or denied. Sometimes not a problem with the regulation itself.

I think it's a much differnt time now. When you and I started out our off farm jobs could pay for a bad year on the farm or at least help greatly. Now off farm jobs are peanuts to apply to the farm expenses as you said things went nuts except what people are earning relative to costs of living nevermind cost of production.

I'd assume you'd agree no one could startout but land and equipment on their own now days and have even one year of loss.

[tubs]

That is ancient history, now we will just print more money. The question I have if you were the PM where would you start to fix this big mess we got ourselves into?

[burnt]

Your right about the regulations although sometimes they are needed the problem lies in how long the regulations take to get sorted out or approved or denied. Sometimes not a problem with the regulation itself.

I think it's a much differnt time now. When you and I started out our off farm jobs could pay for a bad year on the farm or at least help greatly. Now off farm jobs are peanuts to apply to the farm expenses as you said things went nuts except what people are earning relative to costs of living nevermind cost of production.

I'd assume you'd agree no one could startout but land and equipment on their own now days and have even one year of loss.

Agree 100%. When I started farming, it took the equivalent of 6 years net earning as a logger to pay my first 50 acre piece of dirt. Today that chunk of dirt would bring around $500 -$700 thousand. Could buy a really good used combine for a little over a year's wages.

farming has become a career for deep pockets only. Terrible. Just terrible.

However, I maintain that there is still opportunity to create wealth and industry for those who have the drive to make something out of nothing. Limitations are directly tied to the extent of one's human ingenuity.

Gonna step way out here and likely get shot down, but since the question was asked - I believe that good leadership would rapidly phase out supply management - like over the next 5 years.

Price of land would likely drop and young guys could start in.

At the same time, make it legal to sell whole, unpasteurized milk and dairy products, with full, shared liability resting on both the seller and the consumer.

Allow the sale of meat products that are processed on-farm, same rules as above.

Reduce many food-processing regulations with the same criterion.

In other words, make people responsible for their actions and let the market take care of reducing the risks and hazards.

Could there be risks and health issues? Of course there would be, but I believe that there would be a commensurate positive response and benefit.

Like, it's not as if we have eliminated mortality rates with our present, heavily regulated and scrutinized system.

Cut off social benefits to drug users - workers must pass drug tests, why not welfare recips?

No more "safe injection sites" - for God's sake, why call a poison feeding center "safe"?

No immigration for those who cannot demonstrate a benefit to the receiving country. Is it fair to welcome people like sock boy did when people cannot expect to find work here? To be relegated to a welfare cheque? Not fair to the immigrant, completely unfair to those who are being asked - against their will and their means - to support them.

Just a few little ideas since you asked.

Now back to cutting next year's firewood...

[tubs]

good luck getting a
elected on that platform although I agree with most of them.

[sawfly1]

What ever system is in place has to have incentive.
Communism does not work. There is always someone taking
Advantage of others efforts
On the other hand . Capitalism works . But uncontrolled
It can become monopolistic. To the point that even govt.s
Do the bidding of the corporations.
That is where we are at with the seed industry.

Laws need to be passed to promote innovation.

What we get instead are laws that give control of the market to the monopoly.
No need for innovation when you own the market.

A lot of lessons were learned 100 years ago about
Monolopys, patent law and unfair practices.
And the laws to combat them and create fair competition were created.

Globalisation Reganonmics .neo cons did an end run around
Those laws. Tech use agreements etc.

The fact that you will in the end never actually own
Your own seed or be able treat it yourself.
And the fees for use of the seed , has been govt.
Mandated to be collected from you.

No innovation just control

[ajl]

That is ancient history, now we will just print more money.

Yup. That is why I maintain that the free market capitalist economy is long gone. Only a fool works hard when the government prints money. All you need to do is own real estate and use it like an ATM.