BC train derailment

[ajl]

Anybody been following the story of the CP train derailment at Golden BC? The good news here is that a bunch of surplus grain got dumped into the kicking horse river but that is where the good news ends. Three people were killed in this accident and this along with I am sure big slowdowns in grain movement is the bad news. Apparently transport Canada has mandated the use of hand brakes on all slopes over 1.8%. What was holding that train? Do they not put the brakes on the entire train when sitting in the cold so that it does not freeze when it is stupidly cold outside? Apparently the stupidly cold is sticking around for another week in this area. Hope grain shipment is in not slowed too much as I have tough wheat in the bin booked for March so it can't sit much longer. Hope stupidly cold is finished otherwise my equipment not up to task of moving it in this weather.

[farmaholic]

I'm surprised it took this long to make it to this forum.

Before I say anything I would like to offer my condolences to the crash victims families.

[bucket]

After the bomb went off in Lac Magentic....you would think someone would have thought about have some more stringent safety measures put in place .....apparently not.....

[DaneG]

Yes the air brakes are applied on parked trains also every car and engine have manual hand brakes,when engines are disconnected from cars a % of the cars have to have manual hand brakes applied. It’s not clear if they will have to apply all hand brakes or just a % while engines are connected to cars and left on a grade.

[farmaholic]

Apparently the cold weather causes the air system to leak. Ask any self respecting man the affect frigid cold weather has on his "equipment". Maybe air seals "shrink" and the system has trouble maintaining its pressure and holding/braking capacity.

This is Canada and winter comes every year, this shouldn't be a new problem.

I don't know exactly what happened.

Are the "hand brakes" equivelant to the spring/parking brakes on highway tractors?

[DaneG]

The hand brake is a 2’ dia wheel that is turned by hand and it pulls a chain that is attached to a steel rod which applies the brake shoes.

[farmaholic]

The hand brake is a 2’ dia wheel that is turned by hand and it pulls a chain that is attached to a steel rod which applies the brake shoes.

So no, spring brakes are applied by a lack of air pressure on highway tractors and air brake trailers . Applying rail car hand brakes sounds onerous.

So was the accident caused by mechanical failure or "human" error?

[Rareearth]

Farma just say it,
The system they use is flawed and doomed to failure. Brakes should always be on unless released by air pressure ( the same as semi trucks and trailers). Railway technology and safety systems are ancient and doomed to failure.

[DaneG]

The air brake system is the same concept as highway tractor. Yes applying all the hand brakes on a 100 car train would take a while each one involves climbing up on car platform,may want to pack a lunch.

[Rareearth]

Thanks for clarification Dane

Are they worn out or out of adjustment?

What’s the fix?

[farming101]

Very sad for the loss of life.

I do not think there is a spring applied brake on rail cars. There is a spring but that spring pressure is what you are overcoming when you turn the wheel that applies the brake shoe to the wheel.

So, air pressure must be maintained for the train to remain parked "in emergency" if no hand brakes are applied.

The investigation will need to run its course. A preliminary statement said "it was nothing the crew did" and likely there was nothing they could have done. Dynamic braking (using the electric motors to slow the train) would have been insufficient I would think. With distributed power I am not sure how air brakes are applied, but if it requires a signal from the manned engine it seems that the remotes would have not received a signal to help slow the train, and that something failed or froze up on the lead engine.

[farmaholic]

Farma just say it,
The system they use is flawed and doomed to failure. Brakes should always be on unless released by air pressure ( the same as semi trucks and trailers). Railway technology and safety systems are ancient and doomed to failure.

Could it physically/mechanically be done?

112 cars, that's alot of connections and components. I wonder what the rate of loss of air pressure is in the current braking system.

Sounds like DaneG might have some insight. What's operating pressure. Etc.

Edit in, Didn't realize Dane posted again

[farmaholic]

So brakes are always "off" unless applied by air pressure? Except for manually applied hand brakes.

The mechanical spring pressure of "always on" unless they are released by air pressure doesn't exist on railcar like it does on highway tractors?

[Rareearth]

Jet airliners work in plus 50 degree Celsius to minus 60 degree Celsius at altitudes

There is a good example of technology differences, safety systems, modernization, efficiency, etc ( I guess every thing comes at a cost)

[walterm]

Tragic event. My first question is they know stopping on a grade is dangerous, especially in cold weather, so why stop on them. I understand it was for crew change seems it would be better if they had changed before or after steepest grade on the line.