3.7B$ to lease 4400 oil cars for how long? AND... How is this not an export subsidy?

[fjlip]

Greens, NDP wackos, Enviro Nazis, certain lazy Native groups have all the answers...ALL FOSSIL FUELS ILLEGAL! Land is covered with windmills and solar panels. Electric only car/trucks. No livestock, no grains, just lush green grass, pristine waters and trees...happy birds chirping...people?... well if any want to live in paradise, like about the year 1900...they are taking names

[Oliver88]

If you talk to those higher up in the industry, they agree that if additional rail cars was the solution, they would have already done it themselves. It is not a solution, and they didn't do it, and that is really all we need to know. Oil by rail is not economic, it is at best a stop gap measure.

If it goes according to AB Goverments plan, it wouldn't be a subsidy, since they intend to make a profit. Ie. buy the oil at Alberta discounted prices, sell it on the other end at a profitable price. If it were that simple, it would have been done already.

You nailed it, if it was economic it would have already been done.
-Other negative consequences of leasing oil cars will be it takes the pressure off of the Trudeau loons to get out of the way of pipeline construction.
-It will also have a negative effect on grain movement.

Unfortunately it might take a massive spill and large death toll in downtown Liberal Montreal before the Liberals will try to help get another pipeline built.

[checking]

It's back to hockey pucks, and $5500.00 paint refurbished scrap value CWB cars to haul Alberta crude.

[Horse]

Greens, NDP wackos, Enviro Nazis, certain lazy Native groups have all the answers...ALL FOSSIL FUELS ILLEGAL! Land is covered with windmills and solar panels. Electric only car/trucks. No livestock, no grains, just lush green grass, pristine waters and trees...happy birds chirping...people?... well if any want to live in paradise, like about the year 1900...they are taking names

I dont know about electric cars and all but as for living with lush green grass pristine waters birds and so on I do believe up until the europeans arived they had all that,and no taxes no lisnces to hunt,fish,set up there teepee where ever they wanted, now you need 2 people working to survive and pay for those that want to live in luxuary. And they had some very impressive cultures and thrived,I think quite nicely for the era they were in.
As for economics of moving oil why would the oil cos change , they were doing very well as it is, its only those working for the cos that are hurting ,and sooner or later they have to run out of places to drill ,so I think those people had better start to look for new cariers.

[jazz]

North Dakota ships a lot on rail successfully. maybe not a problem with the cost of service but more the cost of product which would say there needs to be a paradigm shift in cost of production in the sands, lower costs, refining, something else.

[poorboy]

US is down to 320K bbl day imports from 14 million/day back in the "peak oil" scare-mongering.

This is the real problem for Alberta oil. The biggest customer in the world does not need any oil (and our customer). More pipelines or rail cars to the west coast is not going to help. There is no market. Everyone who used to supply the US market is already looking to supply others in the world market.

However, the Eastern Canadian market is one that should be supplied by Western Canadian oil. Filling the Eastern Canadian market will remove the excess oil inventory and support prices.

Eastern pipeline is what should be done in the national best interest. Perhaps the rail cars are an attempt to supply this market.

On the rail car issue, if the Alberta government can just lease oil cars from the railways, doesn't that mean that the cars were already in service and waiting for oil guys to hire them to haul oil already? What difference did it really make to have the Alberta Govt involved, or is it just political grandstanding?

[burnt]

This is the real problem for Alberta oil. The biggest customer in the world does not need any oil (and our customer). More pipelines or rail cars to the west coast is not going to help. There is no market. Everyone who used to supply the US market is already looking to supply others in the world market.

However, the Eastern Canadian market is one that should be supplied by Western Canadian oil. Filling the Eastern Canadian market will remove the excess oil inventory and support prices.

Eastern pipeline is what should be done in the national best interest. Perhaps the rail cars are an attempt to supply this market.

On the rail car issue, if the Alberta government can just lease oil cars from the railways, doesn't that mean that the cars were already in service and waiting for oil guys to hire them to haul oil already? What difference did it really make to have the Alberta Govt involved, or is it just political grandstanding?

Unless I'm not understanding your question, did AF5 not answer it above?

[jazz]

Not true AF, the US still wants heavy crudes and with Venezuela fialing it is the perfect time to supplant them for good. Too bad our govt is too stupid to recognize that opportunity. Also china and india want lower quality crudes as well. There is a market there. I am not saying the sands should go to 10mm bbls a day or something, that market is not there, but for a few mm bbls a day it is.

But the players need to know they should be chasing lighter sweeter opportunities in shale and the bakken. US tech has lowered drilling and fracking immensely and if we apply that here we can still have an industry.

[jimmy]

These rail cars that are being bought or leased who is supplying them Warren Buffet? If he is this all makes sense.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Not true AF, the US still wants heavy crudes and with Venezuela fialing it is the perfect time to supplant them for good. Too bad our govt is too stupid to recognize that opportunity. Also china and india want lower quality crudes as well. There is a market there. I am not saying the sands should go to 10mm bbls a day or something, that market is not there, but for a few mm bbls a day it is.

But the players need to know they should be chasing lighter sweeter opportunities in shale and the bakken. US tech has lowered drilling and fracking immensely and if we apply that here we can still have an industry.

Not sure what you are disagreeing about, if it is about the demand side, I addressed that in another thread, it is still very much in demand, and in fact a vital feedstock for many refineries, which need it to blend with the light sweet that is now prevalent. Much cheaper to do that than retrofit existing refineries set up for heavy and or sour.

[Saskpraireboy]

Tank cars are considered a 50 year asset. If the long term market for moving more crude by rail was there , the cars would already be in place by the large private car owners. One of which I work for.
They will not chase short term markets by building more tank cars . Short term demands are only filled by existing cars in the fleet.
Don’t get me wrong, obviously crude is moving by rail now but like I said, more demand is considered short term, so like 5 years or less.

[recapped]

Would it be possible to load tanker ships at Thunder Bay? Maybe it is already being done.

[bucket]

Would it be possible to load tanker ships at Thunder Bay? Maybe it is already being done.

Important question here....

Does Paul Martin's CSL own tankers for the Great Lakes to transfer it?????