Solar Power Quotes

[malleefarmer]

As you guys know im looking into solar.

Got verbal quote from a guy supposedly one of the best installers local and a variety of options regarding quality of panels etc.

Any way my current power bill is between $1000 and 1450 per quarter depending on how much air con is used to cool house down. Sometimes in runs 15 hours a day.

So lets use $1200 as ball park figure.

A solar only system which will generate just under 6 kw enough for house and maybe a little into grid not sure about that though. But night time have to use grid power.

Around $13,000 to 14,000 for topnotch system and monthly bill for power should reduce to $300 to 400 or can go down to a cheaper system for $9 to 10000. Similar saving but system "may" not last as long.

Add another $17000 for a storage battery and power bills will be eliminated all that will be charged is supply charge. As any excess power goes back into the system.

Now panels top notch one 25 years and battery bit unknown but 10 to 12 years and have to be replaced again.

One would hope technolgy changes and in time batterys last longer and may come down in cost even.

The quote for the battery and associated gadgetry and wiring is subsidized currently by the state govt to the tune of $6000 so in effect the system costs 23k.

Other companies claim battery is 10k and solar system 8k but all chinese and all with less guaranteed years.

Cyrstal ball stuff if my power bill in $2100 in say 2 or 3 years its a no brainer.

Oh another catch i have to "quaify" for subsized battery. Have no details but it means tested and if youve got to many assets i may not get it govt targeteing low income people for battery deal.

Read between the lines the are "govt" installers as well and yep low income people sign up pay system back per month for next 5 years and may not be much better of in the hip pocket department.

Seems cash up front buy and be done with it is way cheaper.

Again i plead ignorance but my thinking if electricity goes though the roof grid power i would have thought my excess power generated should be worth more as well but govt set the rate, take my cheap power and on sell it. vicuos circle.

Anyway you always ask chuck to put up some figures well ive done the same.

to round it off its 6kw solar and 4kw stored both rounded up.

clear as mud said the blind man

[Rareearth]

I’m thinking if power and energy rates go up business will have to bear the burden and be even less competitive with foreign imports.
Visious circle.
“ high prices have a way to cure high prices”
The only way power rates can go up to that extent is if Inflation ( of everything else) maintains affordability, just like kicking the can down the road.

Just like global population 10 Billion, and food scarcity. Won’t happen, maybe world populations will decrease?

Just like water wars in the future, Europe, Usa, canada and other countries will just refuse or not give building permits ( it’s that simple) force people to move where infrastructure can support them.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Thanks for posting the real numbers.

I'll ask you the same question I asked Chuck. If solar is so much cheaper, and it's share of the generation is set to only increase more, how can you realistically budget for rates to increase in the future?

Or asked another way, If solar is so much cheaper, that it will save you money in the long run, how do you explain the fact that your power bills have increased so catastrophically already, while its share of generation has been increasing?

To me, these are contradictory claims, either it is cheaper and your future power bills will be dropping to reflect that, or you need to budget for massive inflation in your power bill, because it isn't cheaper. Either way, how does adding solar to your farm make economic sense? I know the numbers you indicate seem to show a reasonable payback, but if that is the case, then why did your power bills go up so far to start with?

[Hamloc]

I have went through this calculation and posted numbers before, so I will attempt to do this from memory. First off the cheapest way to do this is with a grid tie system and incidentally the only one that is subsidized in Alberta. Roof mount system is $2.60 a watt installed and a ground mount roughly $3.20 an installed watt. Originally the subsidy was a maximum of $.60 a watt, I believe Notely recently increased this to a $1.00 per installed watt. I use roughly 18-19 thousand kilowatt hours per year so to be net zero(the max you can be subsidized for) I would install roughly 14500 watts of solar panels. To make this system functional and provide me with a stand alone system the calculations change somewhat. My highest consumption occurs in the winter at roughly a peak of 100 kwh per day. In building a stand alone system you require enough battery storage to last 4 days I believe and a larger solar array. If I remember correctly this required 18000 watts of panels mounted on the ground due to my yard layout or $57600. As far as the cost of batteries I believe it worked out to $125000 worth of batteries, a total of $182600. Presently my total power bill per year is $3900 per year. 25 years worth of power is $97500 at present prices, this will undoubtably increase. Batteries require replacement every 8-10 years. At present doesn't make sense.

[malleefarmer]

AB5 im not a doing anything other than trying to get cheaper power.

Not a save the world type or a climate change beleiver just power is ridiculous in SA

Our power prices have almost double in last 7 years.

Supply charge is 94 cents per day

Im not actually saing solar is cheaper when repalacement costs added in, but like i said who knows what grid power will be govt trying to bring in some sort of regualted floor price currently for grid power.

Think i will have 22 panels for solar and about 40 for solar and battery

[poorboy]

AB5 im not a doing anything other than trying to get cheaper power.

Not a save the world type or a climate change beleiver just power is ridiculous in SA

Our power prices have almost double in last 7 years.

Supply charge is 94 cents per day

Im not actually saing solar is cheaper when repalacement costs added in, but like i said who knows what grid power will be govt trying to bring in some sort of regualted floor price currently for grid power.

Think i will have 22 panels for solar and about 40 for solar and battery

[ATTACH]3977[/ATTACH]

Mallee,

Is your kW price the only charge on your bills?

In Alberta we pay a monthy charge for the power transformer of between $40 and $400 for rural and commercial services, then we pay for the electricty used by the kW/hr and then a transmission charge based on the kW of electricity used and then a distribution charge based on the kW of electricity used and finally a monthly fee to do the bill and paperwork. For example on my energy bill the electricity used might be $100, but the total bill might be $500 once all the fees are included. There is also a carbon tax on the bill which I had forgot about.

I stand to be corrected, but my understanding in Alberta is that if I have a solar panel set up and also need to use the grid power, I pay full rate on the power the grid provides me including transmision and distribution charges, but once my solar panel starts putting power back into the grid, I only get credit for the power, no reduction in my distribution and transmission charges that occured. Monthly fees for the power transformer still occur at that $40 to $400/month.

So to really make solar pay in Alberta you need to be totally off the grid or use very little power from the grid. A $4000 yearly power bill might be only reduced by $1000 maximum as that is what the actual power cost is.

If your $0.20-0.42/kWh is an all in price it is very expensive, but not that much worse than our costs here. If you have to add distribution and transmission charges to your prices, then yes you are getting ****d.

[Horse]

My power bill for jan is 218$ 17.7cents/kw for a consumption of 1234 kw,all in,but the cost of energy is .068, or 83$ the rest is trans,distribution,carbon,gst . Over all last yr just over $2000.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

AB5 im not a doing anything other than trying to get cheaper power.

Not a save the world type or a climate change beleiver just power is ridiculous in SA

Our power prices have almost double in last 7 years.

Supply charge is 94 cents per day

Im not actually saing solar is cheaper when repalacement costs added in, but like i said who knows what grid power will be govt trying to bring in some sort of regualted floor price currently for grid power.

Think i will have 22 panels for solar and about 40 for solar and battery

I understand the predicament you are in, not intended to come across as I probably did.

Your government and utilities have put you between a rock and a hard place. In their misguided attempts to save the world, they have Raised your power bills to unsustainable levels, forcing you to other options, for financial reasons.

But what I can't comprehend is why, if solar is what caused your costs to double, how does replacing it with more solar make it cheaper? The only possible answer is that you as an individual can buy, operate and maintain the small solar system on your farm cheaper than the utility can at their scale, which would assume that economies of scale don't exist.

This is akin to someone drowning, and the solution is adding more water.

And solar should make good sense in your end of the world, where peak demand is AC, which coincides with peak sun, as opposed to most of us whose peak needs are diametrically opposed to peak sun, both seasonally and daily.

[jimmy]

It looks like out bill this year will be over 10,000 for power for two people. Need to look for other source of heat for our three buildings. We don’t have gas no where close so that is out. We did look into solar but in Saskatchewan the contract looked like it was redone in 10 years and I would dought it would have favorited me. We have plenty of wood and flax straw might have to resort to that to stay warm.

[GDR]

It looks like out bill this year will be over 10,000 for power for two people. Need to look for other source of heat for our three buildings. We don’t have gas no where close so that is out. We did look into solar but in Saskatchewan the contract looked like it was redone in 10 years and I would dought it would have favorited me. We have plenty of wood and flax straw might have to resort to that to stay warm.

I didnt realize there are rural areas that heat with power. Is it common where you are at? Are propane or fuel oil not viable options or power was just better upon original installation?

[Guest]

It looks like out bill this year will be over 10,000 for power for two people. Need to look for other source of heat for our three buildings. We don’t have gas no where close so that is out. We did look into solar but in Saskatchewan the contract looked like it was redone in 10 years and I would dought it would have favorited me. We have plenty of wood and flax straw might have to resort to that to stay warm.

holy shit jimmy , that is high!!
sure makes us appreciate natural gas
what is your general area ?

[ajl]

My power bill for jan is 218$ 17.7cents/kw for a consumption of 1234 kw,all in,but the cost of energy is .068, or 83$ the rest is trans,distribution,carbon,gst . Over all last yr just over $2000.

Our REA (Lakeland) is very similar to that except we get a charge of 1 cent per kwh in the distribution charge as well bring the total variable cost to 7.8 cents per kilowatt hour. Alberta REA is some of the most expensive power in the country.

[jimmy]

Solar and wind might be more reliable if this storage battery designed by a few mit students and a prof from Canada works. Their company is called Ambri.

[GDR]

Heard part of a Bill Gates interview, he is a save the world kind of guy. However he put it quite blunt to the interviewer that wind and solar can not replace fossil fuels at this point. There is no other alternative, yet. Hopefully hearing it from a respected left leaning guy like Gates may help some people realize reality.