Electricity again

[blackpowder]

See, thing is, nobody ever asked me before they forced us in to standing on a mountain of coal and pissing into the wind.

[sumdumguy]

All the proof in the world won’t convince a horse either AF. Some just don’t have the mental capacity but they think they do. Every day I thank the good Lord for coal and natural gas when windchills hover around minus 40 for much of the month.

[grassfarmer]

Chuck2 here is a very simple question. It is 12:28 pm here in Alberta. It is a sunny but cold day. I just looked at the AESO supply and demand report. There is a 15 MW solar farm at Brooks Alberta. Right now it is producing 0 MW. Why is that? You brag up solar, you talk about all these brilliant engineers and how a simple farmer like myself can't be right. Wouldn't today be a perfect day for winter production of solar energy? Where is our electricity going to come from on a day like today in the future when wind and solar are not producing?

That makes no sense Hamloc - how can it not be producing unless it is offline for a maintenance issue? If there is sunlight it will be producing - i'd question the reporting accuracy - sure that it wasn't 12:28am?

edit - I looked at the AESO report and some of the coal and gas generators are also indicating zero production. Shut down? being serviced? who knows but clearly it's not true to say that solar doesn't produce on a day when there is sun - it must be in the way this is reported.

[malleefarmer]

I dont disagree with the comments on each side of argument.

Presume chuck you guys have 3 phase power lines we only have single phase and are limited because of it.

Limited to size of solar i mean.

Think most for straight solar i can have is 6.6kw and with battery a tad over 12.

Read last night our coal exports first in world and gas about 4th and uranium 3rd alas all goes into mpower generation in other countries but thats the way it is.

I can jump up and down all i like but in australia renewables are here to stay end of story unless there is some momentous shift in Govt thinking and voter thinking.

Only real change thatv MAY happen down the track is nuclear power generation and correct me if im wrong its clean and green and cheap just the actual mining process thats "dirty"

[malleefarmer]

Oh and ps the mach 2015 statement i personally think thats wrong.

[chuckChuck]

Yes, the solar energy for my crops, and grass and hay is free also. But because I am capable of the most basic of math skills, I don't jump to the conclusion that my COP is therefore 0 before I have even made the first mortgage payment.

It is comments such as your free fuel comment that costs your side so much credibility, amongst those who apply common sense.

I didn't say my COP was zero,or that the kwh are free. I said the fuel source cost is zero. Maybe that is hard for you understand?

As I said it is a waste of time trying to discuss this issue with people who are self declared arm chair experts like yourself.

[malleefarmer]

I didn't say my COP was zero,or that the kwh are free. I said the fuel source cost is zero. Maybe that is hard for you understand?

As I said it is a waste of time trying to discuss this issue with people who are self declared arm chair experts like yourself.

payback seems to be 4 to 6 years depending on system and quality.

but if grid prices keep rising quicker.

appear alot of chinese components are fools gold cheap and nasty best stuff comes out of germany scandanavia.

alot like me seriously looking at it. currently we have a $6000 govt subsidy to go whole hog with battery and batterys only last about 10 yrs so if your up for 10 to 12k every 10 yrs takes the gloss off but one would hope batteries will become cheaper as demand increases.

Other thing chuck guiys tell me to go to commercial grade panels have live of 50 yrs

[chuckChuck]

I dont disagree with the comments on each side of argument.

Presume chuck you guys have 3 phase power lines we only have single phase and are limited because of it.

Limited to size of solar i mean.

Think most for straight solar i can have is 6.6kw and with battery a tad over 12.

Read last night our coal exports first in world and gas about 4th and uranium 3rd alas all goes into mpower generation in other countries but thats the way it is.

I can jump up and down all i like but in australia renewables are here to stay end of story unless there is some momentous shift in Govt thinking and voter thinking.

Only real change thatv MAY happen down the track is nuclear power generation and correct me if im wrong its clean and green and cheap just the actual mining process thats "dirty"

We are on single phase. I am not sure what the limit is for single phase but there are some bigger single phase systems out there than mine at 25kw. Your limit might be because of your transformer size? You can get bigger transformers for bigger farm loads here. What size is your transformer?

Can you do a grid tied system and get credit for what you produce against what you consume? That way you don't need batteries which can be expensive. Affordable storage for renewables is already being used in some recent projects at the grid level. Tesla has the power wall. But grid tied systems are a better option at the present here.

Who owns your utility? What rate do you pay per kwh? And what is your monthly delivery charge? Do you have neighbors or friends who have solar? Is there any solar in your region?

The following link says 31% of homes in SA have solar is this true?

https://www.cleanenergycouncil.org.au/resources/technologies/solar-energy

[chuckChuck]

Chuck2 here is a very simple question. It is 12:28 pm here in Alberta. It is a sunny but cold day. I just looked at the AESO supply and demand report. There is a 15 MW solar farm at Brooks Alberta. Right now it is producing 0 MW. Why is that? You brag up solar, you talk about all these brilliant engineers and how a simple farmer like myself can't be right. Wouldn't today be a perfect day for winter production of solar energy? Where is our electricity going to come from on a day like today in the future when wind and solar are not producing?

Don't know what is going on at Brooks. It is sunny there today according to the weather conditions. One possibility is snow but that is usually a temporary problem especially if temperatures warm up it is gone rather quickly as the panels warm up in the sun just like your car windshield. Or the wind can blow it off if it is loose.

I brush mine off. It takes about 10 minutes. Production today will be well above 20000 watts at mid day on my system. It works better than expected in cold weather because the panels are more efficient in the cold and the snow provides some reflected energy.

Nobody is saying we are going to go full on with renewables without backup, storage systems or in the best case hydro. But As I have said Saskpower is planning 50% renewables by 2030 which includes hydro. I don't know why they would plan for that much wind primarily and some solar if it didn't work within their system plan.

I am not saying farmers are not smart enough to figure this out, but unless you are working in this field at a utility crunching numbers and designing systems you really don't know what is going on.

[malleefarmer]

Can get credits yes chuck but power consumed overnight often cancels out benifit in summer keeping house cool.

The 31% cant argue against it as i dont know but personally thought would have been 20 to 25% but if its up to date latest 2018 figures it more than likely correct.

[sumdumguy]

Mallee, when will you be planting?

[oneoff]

Sorry double post

[oneoff]

[QUOTE I may be wrong and they may have the tools and the education to figure a lot of things out, but unless you are actively working in the industry with the facts at hand, how the hell would you know what is going on?

In my lifetime have seen a few examples of gross smugness and disdain for information contrary to what certain persons already know.

So here's a couple of hints for those who praise/tear down politicians, buerocrats or anyone not entitled to their conclusions made after considerable outreach and literature search.

I would suggest that anyone can learn from those they choose to approach or associate with. For instance you would find out that DC transmission of power is on the drawing boards and in Sask will soon has a very high degree of probability of happening. Well maybe better said as ; the grid power lines coming to Sask will soon be capable of being much longer (or alternatively will have much lower power losses per mile).

On the solar and wind front in Sask; it would be informative for chuck to know that Sask Power has assumed all the environmental "Carbon tax credits" for solar installations connected to the grid. This enables the Corporation (Sask Power) to recover some of the effective subsidy that "solar innovators" should have been saddled with to cover the provincial electrical grids upgrades that occur because of these new small scale producers. Somebody; other than Sask Power ultimately pays for those costs (at sort of $200,000 a pop). That payee will be through those who pay carbon taxes; and those who consume power at >14.2 cents/Kwh . Sorry those are facts. The actual subsidy for the initial installation is "free" I suppose.

On the obverse side; non renewable generator's of substantially more power aren't even granted access to the system; and probably never will be. Its just cost prohibitive; and thus a 750 KW minimum generating capacity to even be considered for grid connection. Of course I'm talking such things as waste flare/casing/associated gas.

Real solutions such as nuclear power can;t even be mentioned; and the actual problem of too many oxygen sucking/ carbon dioxide producing mammals and other critters are a taboo subject....I guess.

Now for those who believe in small scale wind generation; I almost dare anyone to first find the Standards Approved equipment. The list of wind inverters manufacturers have dropped like flies. Partially because of interested customers overestimating their wind resource; also because a dollar invested in a solar setup now has better economics; and certainly because of the experience of early adopters in their problems, maintenance and the stress that installers and manufacturers had as daily experiences. Small unit numbers sold and too many daily headaches. And no I did not say off shore wind or the prime areas that have been identified for their wind resources. But not the rest of airspace that has turbulent air flow at heights of what small wind producers still have difficulty servicing.

And chuck I was also told by the people who you consider experts that some good ideas turn out to be disasters. Take the windturbines that a certain Crown Corp installed for some town skating rinks. I gather they aren't the landmarks they may have been. Neither did they remain of value. In some if not all instances their value was reduced considerably when disposed of.

Nah that's not true. They couldn't even be given away.. Partly because of LIABILITY.

As in; just remember back to the ice storm some weeks ago. Some steel transmission towers came down along with a BIG chunk of the province being out of power for a substantial period. Well those towers were engineered and designed with a safety factor of 4 times. However some actually failed (during that ice storm) with only "3 times" what they shoud have withstood. The key point being that LIABILITY; suggests that those "unsafe" and not up to standards towers ALL have a problem. Will everyone contribute to fixing those infrastructure elements that should be a shared responsibility of all people who have any connection to the provincial utility grid? Freeloaders in charge of the finances I suppose.

Since those who have already decided everyone else's destiny and the "self declared innovative parties" haven't admitted to any of the above, or agree that any such points are important; I will just pay for someone else's pet projects and let them take the credit for being so much smarter than everyone else.

But, does it really hurt to consider other than what confirms what you already know???[/QUOTE]

Edit: Just for emphasis....that 750KW capacity mentioned above should have a factor of about 6 applied to it to compare "apples to apples" on a 20 Kw solar panel project; as far as promoting energy self sufficiency and health of the grid system. You see it nice to have 24 hour availabilty and electrical energy every day of the year too. Comes in handy in December and January when someone said you might as well cover a solar panel with a blanket and let it hibernate.

[malleefarmer]

Mallee, when will you be planting?

Im actually seriously questioning if i will.

Another crap year i would hate to face.

And livestock just so so good

From a pure bussiness perspective let some one rent my 2019 crop acres if i really wanted to do it

[grassfarmer]

Don't know what is going on at Brooks. It is sunny there today according to the weather conditions. One possibility is snow....

Real bad snow obviously as it shut down some coal and gas plants also apparently.