Cypress Hills -Grass lands

[TOM4CWB]

If seed that comes from my neighbor is still certified seed because a royalty has to be paid on it....then I should be paid for it as certified seed at the elevator....it isn't certified after being in the field of any commercial farmer....

Please smarten the **** up....

And quite frankly most certified seed is barely pure....as proven by the triffid flax episode.....

Bucket
Pretending to defend a position on a point of law... that clearly you can Not defend; (seeding PBR licenced varieties of planting seed) with UPOV 78 or 91 registrations..: no matter what swears or convoluted rational you use to dream up what generation from Breeder Seed you plant... exempts you from being a thief (should you choose to plant some of this seed variety) sorry to break your bubble... 15 generations away (down from)the last Certified Seed that produced the planting seed progeny you claim to use on exemption ...
Just because it is not itself Certified Seed... holds No legal standing for a defendant trying to use this excuse.Gene identified (PBR) varieties are iron clad legally binding registered genomes... irrespective of whichever generation you have that came from the Breeder Seed of registered Varieties .

You are aware. You may have tried to use “ignorance of the law is a valid excuse to break the law, (which is no defence at all with legal standing)...

Have a great day... hope that your spring goes well and your crops yield a prosperous harvest!
Cheers

[furrowtickler]

Thx Bucket for your bringing up Chinese abuse of ‘Intellectual Property Rights’ And being the prime offending power globally in justifying political manipulation to break contracts and steal property contrary to the Rule Of Law.

This theft is also what is happening in the planting seed situation with Cereal and Pulse PBR protected varieties.

As with the abusing Chinese, the grain farmer who steals varietal intellectual property... both situations destroy the rule of law and depreciate all of our assets.
Cheers... thanks again for enforcing what the actual situation is.

So let’s clear something up here ... define this theft Tom . Is keeping your own seed theft now ???
What is the deal with just farmer saved seed , from his own farm to be grown on his own farm ??? In fact , “his own grown seed” ??? With all this new legislation and seed tax rules .
Coles note version please ..... is that stealing or not, even if some end point royalties are paid in the pit ???
I have asked before but get different answers every single time .

At the end of the day , seed growers stand to make a lot off this which is why Megz partly supports it , as do you Tom .
So please quit fukin lying that you won’t benifit from the seed tax .... you are starting to sound like Trudeau already .
I understand it’s coming regardless, do I support it fully ... not at all . Especially with cereals, the margins are already way too tight .
Between this and the carbon tax’s all that will be left in western Canada in 10 years will be Hutterites and seed growers left to farm with a sprinkling of good “hobbyfarmers”
And I think the Hutterites will be protecting themselves by becoming seed growers .

[bucket]

Bucket
Pretending to defend a position on a point of law... that clearly you can Not defend; (seeding PBR licenced varieties of planting seed) with UPOV 78 or 91 registrations..: no matter what swears or convoluted rational you use to dream up what generation from Breeder Seed you plant... exempts you from being a thief (should you choose to plant some of this seed variety) sorry to break your bubble... 15 generations away (down from)the last Certified Seed that produced the planting seed progeny you claim to use on exemption ...
Just because it is not itself Certified Seed... holds No legal standing for a defendant trying to use this excuse.Gene identified (PBR) varieties are iron clad legally binding registered genomes... irrespective of whichever generation you have that came from the Breeder Seed of registered Varieties .

You are aware. You may have tried to use “ignorance of the law is a valid excuse to break the law, (which is no defence at all with legal standing)...

Have a great day... hope that your spring goes well and your crops yield a prosperous harvest!
Cheers

If the stupid ****s that created Triffid after being asked not to and then blended it off because no one in Canada had the means to test for it makes it OK to defend your position ...so be it....They are just as criminal as the guy trading seed at the farm after 2 or three generations....

If you want to **** up agriculture with high priced seed which is where it is going...you do it at your own peril as well...

China bans canola and you think the market is functioning properly with no support....

Tell that to a Russian steel company that Ralph Goodale just handed 40 million to the other day....thats support....

What is MEGZ position on all of this since she is such an intelligent individual as many here are willing to vote for her....

If you look at the females on the liberal side of the justice committee ...thats what you are getting...

[TOM4CWB]

So let’s clear something up here ... define this theft Tom . Is keeping your own seed theft now ???
What is the deal with just farmer saved seed , from his own farm to be grown on his own farm ??? In fact , “his own grown seed” ??? With all this new legislation and seed tax rules .
Coles note version please ..... is that stealing or not, even if some end point royalties are paid in the pit ???
I have asked before but get different answers every single time .

At the end of the day , seed growers stand to make a lot off this which is why Megz partly supports it , as do you Tom .
So please quit fukin lying that you won’t benifit from the seed tax .... you are starting to sound like Trudeau already .
I understand it’s coming regardless, do I support it fully ... not at all . Especially with cereals, the margins are already way too tight .
Between this and the carbon tax’s all that will be left in western Canada in 10 years will be Hutterites and seed growers left to farm with a sprinkling of good “hobbyfarmers”
And I think the Hutterites will be protecting themselves by becoming seed growers .

Thx Furrowtickler;

define this theft Tom .
1] Is keeping your own seed theft now ???
Answer] If you bought A REGISTERED PBR UPOV91 VARIETY certified seed, that the required royalty [had been] paid to the plant breeder... then the next generations resulting from that pedigreed Certfied planting seed can be used by that farmer alone to replant [only on this person's farm alone] as many times as that farmer chooses. No switching with other brown bag seed of the same variety... no selling to any other farmer ever for planting seed.
So you asked;

"What is the deal with just farmer saved seed [I assume you mean grown from legally purchased planting Certified Seed of a specific variety that is registered with PBR, UPOV78/91], from his own farm to be grown... [ONLY BACK] on his own farm [NOT SOLD AS PLANTING SEED TO ANY OTHER FARMER]...
THIS IS CLEARLY THE RIGHT OF THAT FARMER TO KEEP USING THAT SPECIFIC GENETIC GENOME OF THAT SPECIFIC LOT OF PEDIGREED SEED[???] THAT In fact ,[IS THE PROGENY OF] “his own grown seed” . This new legislation and seed tax rules HAVE NOT CHANGED RADICALLY. PBR HAS BEEN AROUND OVER 2 DECADES... AS HAS UPOV78.

ALL THAT CHANGED WITH UPOV 91 LEGISLATION THAT WAS PASSED IN 2015; WAS THAT IT IS ILLEGAL TO BUY OR SELL PLANTING SEED OF A REGISTERED PBR VARIETY... WHERE AS THE ILLEGAL SELLER OF UPOV78 PBR VARIETIES... WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DAMAGES... INSTEAD OF BOTH THE BUYER AND SELLER WITH ILLEGAL PLANTING SEED USE OF UPOV91 REGISTERED VARIETIES.

BECAUSE PEDIGREED SEED GROWERS KEEP 0% of the seed royalty due the plant breeder... there is no profit in the collection of seed royalties... instead a liability is created... when illegal 'brown bag' planting seed is sold to another farmer... and the PEDIGREED SEED GROWER must compete with this planting seed that the seller does not submit the royalty due on that lot of PBR upov registered seed used for illegal planting. 30-40% of years... we could have realized higher net margin returns... if we had sold the planting seed instead as commercial grain instead to a grain buyer.

PEDIGREED SEED GROWERS must have clean fields with break rotations...
AS 'New' varieties are a logistical purity issue...
as [old varieties contaminate purity with volunteers which will contaminate the purity of these 'New' planting seed varieties.... if not dealt with effectively.
Further,
PEDIGREED SEED GROWERS are still required to pay the seed tax on our own farm saved seed used for pedigreed seed planting...
AND,
even though commercial grain growers are exempt from paying the seed tax on their own grown from planting seed... yes we must pay the seed tax even on grain crops produced from our own planting seed... for commercial sale to grain buyers...

If you think there is big 'extra' returns in growing pedigreed seed... there is nothing stopping you!
Have fun and a great year in 2019!!!

[farmaholic]

If seed growers don't like paying royalties on their certified seed they can't sell to producers and instead has to sell to grain companies, they should take it up with their Plant Breeder Association/SeedCo. It's a ****ing risk they have to take. It's not my problem!!!!! They could also quit grain farming or change to cattle farming.

[bucket]

Tom


Seed isn't pure from farmers after the first year....it's barely pure coming from a farm like yours....


When the guys you represent want to voluntarily make me whole for that Triffid flax ****ing ...I might start enlisting my brain to review your plant breeders ideas of theft....

[farmaholic]

"PEDIGREED SEED GROWERS must have clean fields with break rotations...
AS 'New' varieties are a logistical purity issue...
as [old varieties contaminate purity with volunteers which will contaminate the purity of these 'New' planting seed varieties.... if not dealt with effectively.
Further,
PEDIGREED SEED GROWERS are still required to pay the seed tax on our own farm saved seed used for pedigreed seed planting..."

Sounds like the cost of being in the seed business, if you don't like it get out!

If the royalty you have to pay on your farm grown pedigreed seed to produce grain for sale to commercial growers isn't to your liking, take it up with the Plant Breeders Association. You are still trying to add value for your farm, if it weathers beyond being suitable for certified seed or no one wants it thats your problem, it's called risk.

[bucket]

"PEDIGREED SEED GROWERS must have clean fields with break rotations...
AS 'New' varieties are a logistical purity issue...
as [old varieties contaminate purity with volunteers which will contaminate the purity of these 'New' planting seed varieties.... if not dealt with effectively.
Further,
PEDIGREED SEED GROWERS are still required to pay the seed tax on our own farm saved seed used for pedigreed seed planting..."

Sounds like the cost of being in the seed business, if you don't like it get out!

If the royalty you have to pay on your farm grown pedigreed seed to produce grain for sale to commercial growers isn't to your liking, take it up with the Plant Breeders Association. You are still trying to add value for your farm, if it weathers beyond being suitable for certified seed or no one wants it thats your problem, it's called risk.

Good points farmaholic....what about if TOM4$FORJUSTHIMSELF picks the wrong variety that turns out to be a dud.....does he owe anything to the commercial growers he stuck that variety with polluting their land while he calls them thieves ?

With royalties come responsibilities. ....like chemical...


I CAN AFFORD THE INPUTS....BUT...I CAN'T AFFORD THEM NOT TO WORK....

[furrowtickler]

Thx Tom .
Your other rants seem to be accusing all farmers as thief’s . Just wanted ya to clear that up lol.
Most of us understand there is definitely costs involved by the seed growers to grow these varieties.
There is most likely not a lot of extra “returns” in growing pedigree seed. It’s the breeders that are soaking you guys.
It’s the plant breeders who think they need to be instant billionaires for developing some mediocre new varieties that is just barely better the last one and are expecting all farmers be forced to buy his new super seed every year. That’s the fear out there from most of the farmers and the mistrust of where UPOV 91 will lead .
There is very very little selling of “brown bag” seed . Most farmers respect PBR a lot more than you think .

You can stop yelling now lol

[farmaholic]

"PEDIGREED SEED GROWERS must have clean fields with break rotations...
AS 'New' varieties are a logistical purity issue...
as [old varieties contaminate purity with volunteers which will contaminate the purity of these 'New' planting seed varieties.... if not dealt with effectively."


Geez, regarding midge tolerant wheat I will already have 10% of a "refuge variety" added to the midge tolerant one when its sold to me. So if a seed grower wants to grow a midge tolerant variety for commercial sale...who cares if there's "afew" volunteers of the added refuge variety already in the field?

This example doesn't sound too onerous if managed properly.

Also don't hurt yourself falling off your moral high horse named "Purity". Because its "Purity" WITHIN specs. I would bet my farm its not 100% ....there's some "jackass" in that horse called "Purity".