Canadian grain Levies/Royalties

[TASFarms]

We already pay check offs of wheat and pulses. Which are the same as end point royalties. Any over charges on freight are put back into research. Any fines or extra money that has been taken from Farms goes back to research not back to the Farms

[GDR]

No 1 spring wheat is worth about $6.50-7.00 per bushel and seed growers will want $12.00-14.00 per bushel for No1 cert. I do not know what the seed royalties might be but they will be on top of that.

That 12 to 14 already has a royalty built into the price that the seed grower remits to the genetic owner. Im not sure the intention is to add more cost to that bushel of seed but instead change the way its collected to ensure that everyone using the genetics pays for the right to use it. I think most of the emotion and disagreement around the issue is for fear of the unknown. Perhaps some sort of cap to the max that can be charged regardless how its collected might alleviate some users concerns.

As mentioned by others the biggest issue to me is the deregistration and the recent wheat reclassification that goes on without farmer say or control. If there are issues with varieties let the market decide, if its not market based then leave it alone!

On a side note there is a premium to the seed grower, of course there is, there has to be or who would do it? I dont think its as big as most guys think after all costs in and the fact that most growers sit on good germ stuff a couple years to spread quality risk. I am a small farmer compared to lots on here but I buy new certified seed each year, for sure the economics are different on a larger scale. It just not worth the hassle of germ, cleaning storing and treating plus loss of screenings and I like to seed a few different varieties so that just multiplies the hassle.

[TOM4CWB]

That 12 to 14 already has a royalty built into the price that the seed grower remits to the genetic owner. Im not sure the intention is to add more cost to that bushel of seed but instead change the way its collected to ensure that everyone using the genetics pays for the right to use it. I think most of the emotion and disagreement around the issue is for fear of the unknown. Perhaps some sort of cap to the max that can be charged regardless how its collected might alleviate some users concerns.

As mentioned by others the biggest issue to me is the deregistration and the recent wheat reclassification that goes on without farmer say or control. If there are issues with varieties let the market decide, if its not market based then leave it alone!

On a side note there is a premium to the seed grower, of course there is, there has to be or who would do it? I dont think its as big as most guys think after all costs in and the fact that most growers sit on good germ stuff a couple years to spread quality risk. I am a small farmer compared to lots on here but I buy new certified seed each year, for sure the economics are different on a larger scale. It just not worth the hassle of germ, cleaning storing and treating plus loss of screenings and I like to seed a few different varieties so that just multiplies the hassle.

GDR\Mallee,

GDR You hit the high points very well... including the 'demotion' of some wheat varieties after a couple of bad harvests[this should not have happened as grading could have solved any quality problems]. I received some 'stern' glances when I brought this up... so be it. New Varieties are normally about $1.40/bu royalty on Certified pedigreed wheat... so about $2.20/ac... average yield 1.2t/ac = about 1.90/t on royalty if EPR was in place... divide by 3... would be $.65/t/yr on an EPR like Aussies [Mallee] system. I figure the 'slippage' from those whom cheat... is reducing plant breeders royalties by 30-40% below these levels... so the folks who don't cheat are paying 30-40% more now... than if we went to an EPR system like Mallee [Aussies] use. I figure Certified Seed would come down by 15-20% if Canada went to an EPR system on commercial grain sales[back of napkin figures]. Thx for the question Mallee!
Cheers

[TOM4CWB]

GDR\Mallee,

GDR You hit the high points very well... including the 'demotion' of some wheat varieties after a couple of bad harvests[this should not have happened as grading could have solved any quality problems]. I received some 'stern' glances when I brought this up... so be it. New Varieties are normally about $1.40/bu royalty on Certified pedigreed wheat... so about $2.20/ac... average yield 1.2t/ac = about 1.90/t on royalty if EPR was in place... divide by 3... would be $.65/t/yr on an EPR like Aussies [Mallee] system. I figure the 'slippage' from those whom cheat... is reducing plant breeders royalties by 30-40% below these levels... so the folks who don't cheat are paying 30-40% more now... than if we went to an EPR system like Mallee [Aussies] use. I figure Certified Seed would come down by 15-20% if Canada went to an EPR system on commercial grain sales[back of napkin figures]. Thx for the question Mallee!
Cheers

BTW... perhaps the CGC would be a good agency to collect a western Canadian EPR as they can easily audit and verify which variety is being sold[to the commercial grain buyer]... and charge the right EPR royalties [nothing on older public varieties, to say $.80/t on new high performing genetics].
Just a thought.

[malleefarmer]

When we buy new now the seed grower says he has to pay a levy to the breeder allready and I think it bugs the hell out of then that I can get what I produce cleaned and keep using as long as I want.
If the seed grower can produce something better than what I can i would buy new from him every year but he can’t so I don’t.
He just wants to force me to!

So the new "rules" are trying to stop you from using farmer saved seed each year?
Still grappling with main contentious issue?

Someone give it me in 2 easy to read and understand australian sentences

[TOM4CWB]

So the new "rules" are trying to stop you from using farmer saved seed each year?
Still grappling with main contentious issue?

Someone give it me in 2 easy to read and understand australian sentences

Thx Mallee,

the 'new' "rules" are trying to implement an acreage levy [as well as the royalty on pedigreed planting seed]; when using farmer saved seed each year [hence a trailing levy]: when new varieties are grown[$1-2/ac perhaps which can happen without present UPOV 91/PBR laws needing to change]; which I am told recently may be accompanied with the present 'order in council' allowing the farmer saved seed provision being modified for easier enforcement;
or
An EPR on commercial sales by grain growers of cereals and pulses to grain buyers [new laws needed]'
or
remain the same as now... which would mean more enforcement to stop cheaters breaking present UPOV 91/PBR laws[which would also occur, in addition to trailing royalty acreage payment SCHEMES on agreements on farmer saved seed with declarations of all seed varieties planted required].

[jimmy]

Thx Mallee,

the 'new' "rules" are trying to implement an acreage levy [as well as the royalty on pedigreed planting seed]; when using farmer saved seed each year [hence a trailing levy]: when new varieties are grown[$1-2/ac perhaps which can happen without present UPOV 91/PBR laws needing to change]; which I am told recently may be accompanied with the present 'order in council' allowing the farmer saved seed provision being modified for easier enforcement;
or
An EPR on commercial sales by grain growers of cereals and pulses to grain buyers [new laws needed]'
or
remain the same as now... which would mean more enforcement to stop cheaters breaking present UPOV 91/PBR laws[which would also occur, in addition to trailing royalty acreage payment SCHEMES on agreements on farmer saved seed with declarations of all seed varieties planted required].

So in a nutshell forcing us to pay for mediocre seed that doesn’t create a whole lot more value. Tax

[farmaholic]

So in a nutshell forcing us to pay for mediocre seed that doesn’t create a whole lot more value. Tax

Who in their right mind advocates for higher costs for their business?

I truly believe nothing will improve for primary producers. In time all we will see is an additional cost, initially maybe $2-5/acre and later with the possibility of having to buy new seed every year, who knows maybe up to $25-40/acre, pick a number...it will be what ever the market will bear.

Stop treating grain producers like "shooting fish in a barrel"!

[bucket]

It's a great deal ....create many varieties and then after being on a commercial farm the true data comes out....

Maybe western vicki can comment on varietal data when she pucks the new racehorse variety to support and then what happens when varietal data is incomplete.?

GM tried having many vehicles of the same pedigree....silverado/Sierra. ..

Acadia/enclave/traverse/etc

And then the Pontiac line ....

That silliness ****ing near broke them.....actually it did....

[Jagfarms]

When a seed grower grows seed there is Royalty costs involved and are built into the seed price at the time

Seed Royalty prices $1.50-$2 bu on average
Application fees for growing seed
Crop inspection fees
Cleaning cost to clean to certified standard $1 bu plus
Trucking cost to truck seed to seed plant
Trucking cost to haul clean seed back for storage
Screenings cost when you clean seed to certified standards you will have more screenings than cleaning commercial standards
Use 15% as a average number
Most screenings get sold into feed market at feed price
Feed price is usually 1/2 or less of price of product
Then you have extra work of cleaning air drills , combines , anything that handles the seed from seeding to harvest
Extra work of isolation strips around seed fields
Having to pay wages and have someone to load seed for customers or run a tractor so you can load seed when you are seeding in the spring time


Will use a example of Durum this year

Durum market price #1 $7 bu
Inspection and application cost. $1 bu
Trucking cost $0.65
Cleaning cost. $1
Royalties. $1.8
Screenings loss. $0.50

$11.95

Certified Durum seed price on Average is $12 bu and get lower price if you buy bigger volume


Lots of times we don’t sell all the seed that is produced and the seed gets sold commercially to the grain terminals. We don’t pay royalties then but all the other costs are still there.
When a seed grower grows durum to produce certified seed they have to use registered, foundation or higher pedigreed to produce certified. The price of registered Durum would be $15 on average and $17 for foundation.

Now that depresses me after typing in all these numbers as it looks like we will be lucky to break even with Durum seed this year.