Canadian grain Levies/Royalties

[malleefarmer]

So im trying to work out whats the major issue in a nutshell with your proposal is it that epr is to high?
New wheats come out here and can be long gone after one year rare but happens but in 2019 for intance i think there are 29 new wheats barley oats canola beans you name it.

Im currently growing a wheat that was released 6 yrs ago suits me and will buy 2 or 3 tonne of fresh seed this year to bulk up my main barley is 5 years old and my oats is maybe 10 yrs again will buy a few tonne to bulk up.

Australia its 1.020 % is one grdc levy
Another 2 south australian levies 50 cents per tonne in total.
Then EPR which varies between $1.50 and $4 per tonne depending on release date of the crop.

Pasture seeds have a flat $15 per tonne.

Have a good mate who is a seed producer about 50 kms away.

Basically he gets little if any of the above EPR.

Routinely charges around 60% more for his certified seed which he sells. And actually has to pay all the above charges as well.

The hoops and hurdels he has to go through to certified seed accreditation each year is enormous and often his crop is "downgraded" because it didnt make the grade because a weed or test weight or seed weight, purity and im only talking a minute % of error specs are so tight he often wonders if its worth it. People out walking the fields looking for weeds etc or foreighn grain.

Many farmer actually prefer to buy his non accrrediated seed as its only about 10 or 15% than market price because of a small problem.

So again i ask its just the amount you guys are asked to pay? I know this has been done to adnaseum

Apologies for asking again

[malleefarmer]

I should add all new varityies are grown in ech district usually for 3 in trials then goes to seed producer for one year he may grow 20 acres or something and breeders check it all out before release.

Not unusual for new wheat or barley not to make the cut and is not released.

Few years back a wheat blitzed them in trials year one year two blitzed them again in most trials but showed some leaf disiease problems years 3 was mashed by leaf disease and didnt get released much to dismay of farmers as we said we could treat it with fungicides but breeders said would be ngligent if it was released and caused a rust epridemic by those who wont treat with fungicides.

[seldomseen]

No 1 spring wheat is worth about $6.50-7.00 per bushel and seed growers will want $12.00-14.00 per bushel for No1 cert. I do not know what the seed royalties might be but they will be on top of that. At one of the seed meetings they talked about looking at Australia or England as a model to copy with tweaking it to make it Canadian. What ever that means?

I don't mind paying what we pay now if we get decent quality and most years we do but there are years when No1 cert. is nothing like No1 red spring that we sell. They can clean up some real ugly stuff that would be feed wheat and as long as they get the germ up to 85% they call it No1.

Not sure if I answered your question Malle

[farmaholic]

Give an inch and they'll take a mile.

Where us my guaranteed ROI?

Anyone price out certified seed lately? Even with the extra costs of producing certified seed, there's got to be a margin there.

Certified flax is about $22/bu. Commercial is about $13.

Last year we paid $13 for certified CWRS.

I have a feeling there's a bit of margin there.

And the best for last.....$600.00 a bushel for certified treated(shitty treatment too) canola. ($12/lb X 50 lbs./bu) SCARY HUH!

[malleefarmer]

Im suddenly thinking im missing the point to a degree and tell me if im wrong you guys get fresh seed every year???


If thats the case i can see your dismay.

As i stated above my seed was originally bought 5 to 10 yrs ago.
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[malleefarmer]

No 1 spring wheat is worth about $6.50-7.00 per bushel and seed growers will want $12.00-14.00 per bushel for No1 cert. I do not know what the seed royalties might be but they will be on top of that. At one of the seed meetings they talked about looking at Australia or England as a model to copy with tweaking it to make it Canadian. What ever that means?

I don't mind paying what we pay now if we get decent quality and most years we do but there are years when No1 cert. is nothing like No1 red spring that we sell. They can clean up some real ugly stuff that would be feed wheat and as long as they get the germ up to 85% they call it No1.

Not sure if I answered your question Malle

Appears we are way stricter in australia and it is called NO1 not by seed grower but a regulatory authority.

If it dont make the grade they can sell it as commericial seed but at a discounted price.

[farmaholic]

Im suddenly thinking im missing the point to a degree and tell me if im wrong you guys get fresh seed every year???


If thats the case i can see your dismay.

As i stated above my seed was originally bought 5 to 10 yrs ago.
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Nope, you don't have to buy new seed every year, except canola, and that is the model farmers are afraid will evolve over time for other grains.

Maybe the SeedCos can't stand it that farmers can grow the seed they paid for, royalties included,year in year our until they decide to replace it with certified seed again. It would be like sending the vehicle manufacturer a check every year for the "privilege" of driving it.

We went from, Shaw to Jatharia to Landmark in a relatively short period of time. All bought as certified then bulked up(as you say mallee) for our own use, following the recommondations of the varietie's stewardship agreement and not selling any brown bagged to anyone else like Tom4SeedTax accuses some people of doing.

[farmaholic]

Mallee.

Could you tell us what you pay for canola, lentil, wheat(H1 class) and barley seed.

Thanks in advance.

[malleefarmer]

Your allowed to sell "brown bagged here" we call it over the fence trading and breeders i could be wrong but breeders always allow it after year 2. Seed comapnies still collect EPR and govt gets its leveies all at point of sale.

Your other questions i will endevour to find out

Edit when i say breeders allow thats the case not the seed growers who multiply it for breeders.

Canola last year was $11 per kg Barley Seed $450 to 600 per tonne and wheat $450 to 800 depends on release date older ones way cheaper.

Many many id say 25% of growers still grow open pollinated canola and keep seed just the same as wheat and barley hybrids another story of course.

Are your seed breeders private or govt? Here think guessing there are only 2 govt breeders left ag colleges rest all private.

[seldomseen]

When we buy new now the seed grower says he has to pay a levy to the breeder allready and I think it bugs the hell out of then that I can get what I produce cleaned and keep using as long as I want.
If the seed grower can produce something better than what I can i would buy new from him every year but he can’t so I don’t.
He just wants to force me to!

[TASFarms]

We already pay check offs of wheat and pulses. Which are the same as end point royalties. Any over charges on freight are put back into research. Any fines or extra money that has been taken from Farms goes back to research not back to the Farms

[GDR]

No 1 spring wheat is worth about $6.50-7.00 per bushel and seed growers will want $12.00-14.00 per bushel for No1 cert. I do not know what the seed royalties might be but they will be on top of that.

That 12 to 14 already has a royalty built into the price that the seed grower remits to the genetic owner. Im not sure the intention is to add more cost to that bushel of seed but instead change the way its collected to ensure that everyone using the genetics pays for the right to use it. I think most of the emotion and disagreement around the issue is for fear of the unknown. Perhaps some sort of cap to the max that can be charged regardless how its collected might alleviate some users concerns.

As mentioned by others the biggest issue to me is the deregistration and the recent wheat reclassification that goes on without farmer say or control. If there are issues with varieties let the market decide, if its not market based then leave it alone!

On a side note there is a premium to the seed grower, of course there is, there has to be or who would do it? I dont think its as big as most guys think after all costs in and the fact that most growers sit on good germ stuff a couple years to spread quality risk. I am a small farmer compared to lots on here but I buy new certified seed each year, for sure the economics are different on a larger scale. It just not worth the hassle of germ, cleaning storing and treating plus loss of screenings and I like to seed a few different varieties so that just multiplies the hassle.

[TOM4CWB]

That 12 to 14 already has a royalty built into the price that the seed grower remits to the genetic owner. Im not sure the intention is to add more cost to that bushel of seed but instead change the way its collected to ensure that everyone using the genetics pays for the right to use it. I think most of the emotion and disagreement around the issue is for fear of the unknown. Perhaps some sort of cap to the max that can be charged regardless how its collected might alleviate some users concerns.

As mentioned by others the biggest issue to me is the deregistration and the recent wheat reclassification that goes on without farmer say or control. If there are issues with varieties let the market decide, if its not market based then leave it alone!

On a side note there is a premium to the seed grower, of course there is, there has to be or who would do it? I dont think its as big as most guys think after all costs in and the fact that most growers sit on good germ stuff a couple years to spread quality risk. I am a small farmer compared to lots on here but I buy new certified seed each year, for sure the economics are different on a larger scale. It just not worth the hassle of germ, cleaning storing and treating plus loss of screenings and I like to seed a few different varieties so that just multiplies the hassle.

GDR\Mallee,

GDR You hit the high points very well... including the 'demotion' of some wheat varieties after a couple of bad harvests[this should not have happened as grading could have solved any quality problems]. I received some 'stern' glances when I brought this up... so be it. New Varieties are normally about $1.40/bu royalty on Certified pedigreed wheat... so about $2.20/ac... average yield 1.2t/ac = about 1.90/t on royalty if EPR was in place... divide by 3... would be $.65/t/yr on an EPR like Aussies [Mallee] system. I figure the 'slippage' from those whom cheat... is reducing plant breeders royalties by 30-40% below these levels... so the folks who don't cheat are paying 30-40% more now... than if we went to an EPR system like Mallee [Aussies] use. I figure Certified Seed would come down by 15-20% if Canada went to an EPR system on commercial grain sales[back of napkin figures]. Thx for the question Mallee!
Cheers

[TOM4CWB]

GDR\Mallee,

GDR You hit the high points very well... including the 'demotion' of some wheat varieties after a couple of bad harvests[this should not have happened as grading could have solved any quality problems]. I received some 'stern' glances when I brought this up... so be it. New Varieties are normally about $1.40/bu royalty on Certified pedigreed wheat... so about $2.20/ac... average yield 1.2t/ac = about 1.90/t on royalty if EPR was in place... divide by 3... would be $.65/t/yr on an EPR like Aussies [Mallee] system. I figure the 'slippage' from those whom cheat... is reducing plant breeders royalties by 30-40% below these levels... so the folks who don't cheat are paying 30-40% more now... than if we went to an EPR system like Mallee [Aussies] use. I figure Certified Seed would come down by 15-20% if Canada went to an EPR system on commercial grain sales[back of napkin figures]. Thx for the question Mallee!
Cheers

BTW... perhaps the CGC would be a good agency to collect a western Canadian EPR as they can easily audit and verify which variety is being sold[to the commercial grain buyer]... and charge the right EPR royalties [nothing on older public varieties, to say $.80/t on new high performing genetics].
Just a thought.

[malleefarmer]

When we buy new now the seed grower says he has to pay a levy to the breeder allready and I think it bugs the hell out of then that I can get what I produce cleaned and keep using as long as I want.
If the seed grower can produce something better than what I can i would buy new from him every year but he can’t so I don’t.
He just wants to force me to!

So the new "rules" are trying to stop you from using farmer saved seed each year?
Still grappling with main contentious issue?

Someone give it me in 2 easy to read and understand australian sentences