Remember when the Liberal carbon tax was a conservative idea?

[chuckChuck]

Editorial Globe and Mail
Remember when the Liberal carbon tax was a conservative idea?
Published April 1, 2019
Updated 7 hours ago
Remember when carbon taxes were a conservative idea? It seems like it was only yesterday.

But that recent past has been shoved so far down the memory hole that, when reached for comment, spokespeople at the conservative ministry of truth insisted that, so far as they knew, Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia. Carbon taxes are now a thought crime on the Canadian right, the doubleplusungood subject of doublethink and duckspeak, and the main focus of conservative Twitter’s daily Two Minutes of Hate.

George Orwell had nothing on Canadian politics.

April 1 was Day 1 of the federal carbon-tax backstop, imposed on the four provinces that have failed to bring in their own carbon taxes. The four – Saskatchewan, New Brunswick, Manitoba and Ontario – are run by conservative governments. Canadian conservative parties now practise uncompromising opposition to carbon pricing; they insist that it’s a plot to spark a recession and destroy your family’s finances.

Ontario Premier Doug Ford’s Progressive Conservative government did not declare April 1 as a day of mourning, but that’s only because “Ontario’s Government for the People” is visibly gleeful at the arrival of Trudeau’s Tax. They think attacking it is a winner. So do Andrew Scheer’s federal Conservatives.

On the evening of March 31, nearly all of Mr. Ford’s MPPs dutifully drove to gas stations and took photos and videos of themselves filling their cars. Then, just in time for Easter, they tweeted out their take on the (service) stations of the cross: the last day before carbon taxes; the last hour before carbon taxes; the moment at midnight when carbon taxes were loosed upon the world, the price of regular unleaded went up by 4.4 cents a litre, and Armageddon began.

But back to where we started: Carbon taxes, today’s conservative bugbear, began life as a conservative idea.

They’re an economically logical, pro-market way of lowering greenhouse-gas emissions. A way of using prices – the basic mechanism of free markets – to reduce pollution. A way of putting billions of small environmental decisions in the hands of millions of people, rather than handing them over to a big government bureaucracy. And a way to tax something societies need less of, namely pollution, while lowering taxes on things we all want more of, like business investment and personal income.

And it wasn’t just egghead economists or cranky right-wing think-tankers who favoured carbon taxes. In 2008, the government of British Columbia – the Liberal Party, a.k.a. B.C.’s conservative party – brought in carbon taxes on fuels such as gasoline.

It was and still is a model for the rest of the country, since it was intended to be revenue-neutral – with every cent raised by the carbon tax going back into people’s pockets, mostly through tax reductions. Thanks in part to carbon taxes, lower- and middle-income earners in B.C. pay the country’s lowest income taxes.

Then in 2014, Preston Manning, the godfather of Canada’s modern conservative movement, came out in favour of carbon taxes.

In Ontario, the pre-Doug Ford version of the PC Party was all for a revenue-neutral carbon tax. Until Patrick Brown’s leadership imploded a little over a year ago, that was the Ontario PC platform. Higher taxes on pollution were going to pay for lower taxes on everything else.

Conservatives are usually in favour of remembering and honouring history but, on this topic, not so much. What happened to the Ontario PC’s pre-Ford platform? It’s now the Trudeau government platform.

In Ontario, gas prices went up by 4.4 cents a litre on Monday, thanks to Ottawa’s carbon tax. But the feds are returning every cent raised at the pump to the people and businesses of the province. The average person will receive more in rebates than they pay in carbon taxes.

The carbon tax, however, will bite a little. It’s supposed to. The whole point of raising the price of gasoline is to push people to think about how to avoid those costs coming out of their left pocket, while enjoying the carbon-tax rebate in their right pocket. A slightly more fuel-efficient car? Driving less? Taking public transit to work sometimes? The idea is to leave it to people to decide for themselves if they want to lower their carbon costs, and how to do so.

That used to be a conservative idea. Yes, really.

[sumdumguy]

Chuck, you know it is just wealth redistribution and nothing more. People getting the rebate may not even oen a car, let alone an SUV.

[furrowtickler]

Editorial Globe and Mail
Remember when the Liberal carbon tax was a conservative idea?
Published April 1, 2019
Updated 7 hours ago
Remember when carbon taxes were a conservative idea? It seems like it was only yesterday.

But that recent past has been shoved so far down the memory hole that, when reached for comment, spokespeople at the conservative ministry of truth insisted that, so far as they knew, Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia. Carbon taxes are now a thought crime on the Canadian right, the doubleplusungood subject of doublethink and duckspeak, and the main focus of conservative Twitter’s daily Two Minutes of Hate.

George Orwell had nothing on Canadian politics.

April 1 was Day 1 of the federal carbon-tax backstop, imposed on the four provinces that have failed to bring in their own carbon taxes. The four – Saskatchewan, New Brunswick, Manitoba and Ontario – are run by conservative governments. Canadian conservative parties now practise uncompromising opposition to carbon pricing; they insist that it’s a plot to spark a recession and destroy your family’s finances.

Ontario Premier Doug Ford’s Progressive Conservative government did not declare April 1 as a day of mourning, but that’s only because “Ontario’s Government for the People” is visibly gleeful at the arrival of Trudeau’s Tax. They think attacking it is a winner. So do Andrew Scheer’s federal Conservatives.

On the evening of March 31, nearly all of Mr. Ford’s MPPs dutifully drove to gas stations and took photos and videos of themselves filling their cars. Then, just in time for Easter, they tweeted out their take on the (service) stations of the cross: the last day before carbon taxes; the last hour before carbon taxes; the moment at midnight when carbon taxes were loosed upon the world, the price of regular unleaded went up by 4.4 cents a litre, and Armageddon began.

But back to where we started: Carbon taxes, today’s conservative bugbear, began life as a conservative idea.

They’re an economically logical, pro-market way of lowering greenhouse-gas emissions. A way of using prices – the basic mechanism of free markets – to reduce pollution. A way of putting billions of small environmental decisions in the hands of millions of people, rather than handing them over to a big government bureaucracy. And a way to tax something societies need less of, namely pollution, while lowering taxes on things we all want more of, like business investment and personal income.

And it wasn’t just egghead economists or cranky right-wing think-tankers who favoured carbon taxes. In 2008, the government of British Columbia – the Liberal Party, a.k.a. B.C.’s conservative party – brought in carbon taxes on fuels such as gasoline.

It was and still is a model for the rest of the country, since it was intended to be revenue-neutral – with every cent raised by the carbon tax going back into people’s pockets, mostly through tax reductions. Thanks in part to carbon taxes, lower- and middle-income earners in B.C. pay the country’s lowest income taxes.

Then in 2014, Preston Manning, the godfather of Canada’s modern conservative movement, came out in favour of carbon taxes.

In Ontario, the pre-Doug Ford version of the PC Party was all for a revenue-neutral carbon tax. Until Patrick Brown’s leadership imploded a little over a year ago, that was the Ontario PC platform. Higher taxes on pollution were going to pay for lower taxes on everything else.

Conservatives are usually in favour of remembering and honouring history but, on this topic, not so much. What happened to the Ontario PC’s pre-Ford platform? It’s now the Trudeau government platform.

In Ontario, gas prices went up by 4.4 cents a litre on Monday, thanks to Ottawa’s carbon tax. But the feds are returning every cent raised at the pump to the people and businesses of the province. The average person will receive more in rebates than they pay in carbon taxes.

The carbon tax, however, will bite a little. It’s supposed to. The whole point of raising the price of gasoline is to push people to think about how to avoid those costs coming out of their left pocket, while enjoying the carbon-tax rebate in their right pocket. A slightly more fuel-efficient car? Driving less? Taking public transit to work sometimes? The idea is to leave it to people to decide for themselves if they want to lower their carbon costs, and how to do so.

That used to be a conservative idea. Yes, really.

Wrong .... it was a wealth transfer scheme developed by the UN .
Farmers are not the average person and will not receive more than we pay. Evidence will be there next Year when you do your books .

[jazz]

Well we have had another 10 yrs of the science not panning out so I imagine that's what changed conservative minds. We were all waiting for the statue of liberty to go underwater. Still waiting.

That's probably when the powers that be said, hey this isn't happening but we can just collect the carbon tax anyway and keep it for ourselves or buy some more votes with it.

[checking]

In Saskatchewan, the carbon tax did not go on fuel on April 1. Oh god no! The providers merely raised their pump prices a bit at a time over March.

The reason, it would be too much of a shock if it was all imposed on their station customers if it was all added in on April 1. Can't have angry Liberal fools filling up, and noticing they were gouged in March.

[15444]

You can cut the horseshit that the government is returning it all to consumers. There is GST applied to the carbon tax (tax on tax) which is being kept by government and will generate $500 million a year.

But Liberals hate for you to know that, almost as much as they hate Indian women lawyers.

[Guest]

You can cut the horseshit that the government is returning it all to consumers. There is GST applied to the carbon tax (tax on tax) which is being kept by government and will generate $500 million a year.

But Liberals hate for you to know that, almost as much as they hate Indian women lawyers.

That is good !!

[jazz]

if true....hmmmm

[Hamloc]

Editorial Globe and Mail
Remember when the Liberal carbon tax was a conservative idea?
Published April 1, 2019
Updated 7 hours ago
Remember when carbon taxes were a conservative idea? It seems like it was only yesterday.

But that recent past has been shoved so far down the memory hole that, when reached for comment, spokespeople at the conservative ministry of truth insisted that, so far as they knew, Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia. Carbon taxes are now a thought crime on the Canadian right, the doubleplusungood subject of doublethink and duckspeak, and the main focus of conservative Twitter’s daily Two Minutes of Hate.

George Orwell had nothing on Canadian politics.

April 1 was Day 1 of the federal carbon-tax backstop, imposed on the four provinces that have failed to bring in their own carbon taxes. The four – Saskatchewan, New Brunswick, Manitoba and Ontario – are run by conservative governments. Canadian conservative parties now practise uncompromising opposition to carbon pricing; they insist that it’s a plot to spark a recession and destroy your family’s finances.

Ontario Premier Doug Ford’s Progressive Conservative government did not declare April 1 as a day of mourning, but that’s only because “Ontario’s Government for the People” is visibly gleeful at the arrival of Trudeau’s Tax. They think attacking it is a winner. So do Andrew Scheer’s federal Conservatives.

On the evening of March 31, nearly all of Mr. Ford’s MPPs dutifully drove to gas stations and took photos and videos of themselves filling their cars. Then, just in time for Easter, they tweeted out their take on the (service) stations of the cross: the last day before carbon taxes; the last hour before carbon taxes; the moment at midnight when carbon taxes were loosed upon the world, the price of regular unleaded went up by 4.4 cents a litre, and Armageddon began.

But back to where we started: Carbon taxes, today’s conservative bugbear, began life as a conservative idea.

They’re an economically logical, pro-market way of lowering greenhouse-gas emissions. A way of using prices – the basic mechanism of free markets – to reduce pollution. A way of putting billions of small environmental decisions in the hands of millions of people, rather than handing them over to a big government bureaucracy. And a way to tax something societies need less of, namely pollution, while lowering taxes on things we all want more of, like business investment and personal income.

And it wasn’t just egghead economists or cranky right-wing think-tankers who favoured carbon taxes. In 2008, the government of British Columbia – the Liberal Party, a.k.a. B.C.’s conservative party – brought in carbon taxes on fuels such as gasoline.

It was and still is a model for the rest of the country, since it was intended to be revenue-neutral – with every cent raised by the carbon tax going back into people’s pockets, mostly through tax reductions. Thanks in part to carbon taxes, lower- and middle-income earners in B.C. pay the country’s lowest income taxes.

Then in 2014, Preston Manning, the godfather of Canada’s modern conservative movement, came out in favour of carbon taxes.

In Ontario, the pre-Doug Ford version of the PC Party was all for a revenue-neutral carbon tax. Until Patrick Brown’s leadership imploded a little over a year ago, that was the Ontario PC platform. Higher taxes on pollution were going to pay for lower taxes on everything else.

Conservatives are usually in favour of remembering and honouring history but, on this topic, not so much. What happened to the Ontario PC’s pre-Ford platform? It’s now the Trudeau government platform.

In Ontario, gas prices went up by 4.4 cents a litre on Monday, thanks to Ottawa’s carbon tax. But the feds are returning every cent raised at the pump to the people and businesses of the province. The average person will receive more in rebates than they pay in carbon taxes.

The carbon tax, however, will bite a little. It’s supposed to. The whole point of raising the price of gasoline is to push people to think about how to avoid those costs coming out of their left pocket, while enjoying the carbon-tax rebate in their right pocket. A slightly more fuel-efficient car? Driving less? Taking public transit to work sometimes? The idea is to leave it to people to decide for themselves if they want to lower their carbon costs, and how to do so.

That used to be a conservative idea. Yes, really.

Chuck2 have to admit I am disappointed in the Globe and Mail. Stephen Dion first proposed a carbon tax back in 2008. If you don't believe me read: "Carbon tax plan good for the wallet Dion pledges" on cbc.ca June 19,2008. So to say this is a conservative idea is totally false. What is interesting is that Dion's plan involved lowering personal and corporate tax rates instead of the income redistribution involved in Justin Trudeau's plan. It is much more comprehensive and well thought out. Preston Manning's plan also recommended tax cuts to personal and corporate rates to compensate for increased costs due to a carbon tax. Trudeau's plan like Premier Notley's is about income redistribution and penalizing business. I hope this will correct the record. Enjoy your day.

[Guest]

oh , don't bring facts into the discussion
you will be labeled a denier
funny these brain dead pricks didn't ask austrailia how it worked out ?
the good thing is it will finish them off
they must really think the general public is dense enough that they won't see they are buying their votes with their own money ?
Carbon tax is on everything you eat , do and see
meanwhile keebec dumps raw shit in the st Lawrence any time they please and climate Barbie is silent ?

[dmlfarmer]

Chuck2 have to admit I am disappointed in the Globe and Mail. Stephen Dion first proposed a carbon tax back in 2008. If you don't believe me read: "Carbon tax plan good for the wallet Dion pledges" on cbc.ca June 19,2008. So to say this is a conservative idea is totally false. What is interesting is that Dion's plan involved lowering personal and corporate tax rates instead of the income redistribution involved in Justin Trudeau's plan. It is much more comprehensive and well thought out. Preston Manning's plan also recommended tax cuts to personal and corporate rates to compensate for increased costs due to a carbon tax. Trudeau's plan like Premier Notley's is about income redistribution and penalizing business. I hope this will correct the record. Enjoy your day.

"First, the Conservatives previously supported and promoted cap-and-trade. And they did so repeatedly and over a number of years. In their 2004 election platform, the Conservatives said they would “investigate a cap-and-trade system that will allow firms to generate credits by reducing smog-causing pollutants.” The commitment was repeated in the party’s 2005 policy declaration. In 2008, the Conservative party’s policy declaration expressed support for “a domestic cap-and-trade system that will allow firms to generate credits by reducing smog-causing pollutants.” In May 2008, John Baird celebrated the launch of a carbon market in Montreal. “Carbon trading and the establishment of a market price on carbon are key parts of our Turning the Corner plan,” he explained. In their 2008 election platform, the Conservatives promised to help “develop and implement a North America-wide cap and trade system for greenhouse gases and air pollution.” The Harper government repeated the pledge in the subsequent Throne Speech. In June 2009, Jim Prentice announced an offset system that would “generate real reductions in greenhouse gas emissions … by establishing a price on carbon.” In September 2009, Mr. Prentice lobbied the Alberta government to support cap-and-trade. In December 2009, the Harper government claimed to be “working in collaboration with the provinces and territories to develop a cap and trade system that will ultimately be aligned with the emerging cap and trade program in the United States.” McLeans Sept 21, 2012

[furrowtickler]

"First, the Conservatives previously supported and promoted cap-and-trade. And they did so repeatedly and over a number of years. In their 2004 election platform, the Conservatives said they would “investigate a cap-and-trade system that will allow firms to generate credits by reducing smog-causing pollutants.” The commitment was repeated in the party’s 2005 policy declaration. In 2008, the Conservative party’s policy declaration expressed support for “a domestic cap-and-trade system that will allow firms to generate credits by reducing smog-causing pollutants.” In May 2008, John Baird celebrated the launch of a carbon market in Montreal. “Carbon trading and the establishment of a market price on carbon are key parts of our Turning the Corner plan,” he explained. In their 2008 election platform, the Conservatives promised to help “develop and implement a North America-wide cap and trade system for greenhouse gases and air pollution.” The Harper government repeated the pledge in the subsequent Throne Speech. In June 2009, Jim Prentice announced an offset system that would “generate real reductions in greenhouse gas emissions … by establishing a price on carbon.” In September 2009, Mr. Prentice lobbied the Alberta government to support cap-and-trade. In December 2009, the Harper government claimed to be “working in collaboration with the provinces and territories to develop a cap and trade system that will ultimately be aligned with the emerging cap and trade program in the United States.” McLeans Sept 21, 2012

Back then we were going to get carbon credits as farmers , which we should
Now we are going to just simply get bent over .

[dmlfarmer]

Back then we were going to get carbon credits as farmers , which we should
Now we are going to just simply get bent over .

Tell me, where do you think the money for carbon credits was going to come from? Government? Taxes? or large emitters of carbon? If farmers are to get carbon credits, someone has to be paying for carbon. A cap and trade is no different than a carbon tax as both put a price on carbon.

If you think government should just pay credits or incentives without some means of collecting the money going out, you are a socialist. Cap and trade is a capitalist answer for reducing carbon.

Finally, if you actually represent the views of most farmers, why would any government, no matter of views ever support paying carbon credits when farmers continually deny climate change and oppose any action to reduce GHGs? Farmers have a huge opportunity to be part of the solution and be credited financially for it, if they would realize they could be selling sequestration as a product of their farms to a public that is in support of sequestration and a public that is willing to pay for farmers to sequester it. But no, farmers would rather claim actual climate scientists are all corrupt and instead believe conspiracy theories and junk science.

[Hamloc]

"First, the Conservatives previously supported and promoted cap-and-trade. And they did so repeatedly and over a number of years. In their 2004 election platform, the Conservatives said they would “investigate a cap-and-trade system that will allow firms to generate credits by reducing smog-causing pollutants.” The commitment was repeated in the party’s 2005 policy declaration. In 2008, the Conservative party’s policy declaration expressed support for “a domestic cap-and-trade system that will allow firms to generate credits by reducing smog-causing pollutants.” In May 2008, John Baird celebrated the launch of a carbon market in Montreal. “Carbon trading and the establishment of a market price on carbon are key parts of our Turning the Corner plan,” he explained. In their 2008 election platform, the Conservatives promised to help “develop and implement a North America-wide cap and trade system for greenhouse gases and air pollution.” The Harper government repeated the pledge in the subsequent Throne Speech. In June 2009, Jim Prentice announced an offset system that would “generate real reductions in greenhouse gas emissions … by establishing a price on carbon.” In September 2009, Mr. Prentice lobbied the Alberta government to support cap-and-trade. In December 2009, the Harper government claimed to be “working in collaboration with the provinces and territories to develop a cap and trade system that will ultimately be aligned with the emerging cap and trade program in the United States.” McLeans Sept 21, 2012

Dml you do realize it was believed at the time that President Obama was about to implement a cap and trade system which Harper planned to duplicate in Canada. Harper believed a cap and trade system harmonized with our largest trading partner made sense and did not put us at a competitive disadvantage. Justin Trudeau on the other hand is implementing a carbon tax while the U.S. is not which will put us at a competitive disadvantage. Plus his carbon tax is taking money from businesses and using it to subsidize the rebates to all taxpayers in Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario and NewBrunswick because business owners have far less voting power than the general public.

[furrowtickler]

Farmers have a huge opportunity to be part of the solution and be credited financially for it, if they would realize they could be selling sequestration as a product of their farms to a public that is in support of sequestration and a public that is willing to pay for farmers to sequester it.

Can you explain this ?
Was this not exactly what I just brought up ? Or is it just not called “carbon credits” ?

You tell me ... where is the carbon tax going to come from ?? After doing your tax’s do you have all the extra cash laying around ? Time will tell next tax season .