Armagedon

[sawfly1]

There have been benefits to unrestricted global trade.
I have every tool imaginable in my shop thanks to China/Korea
Made me more productive.
Maybe not the best but I have them.

Clothes shoes are so cheap , in the scheme of things.
Cheaper chemicals. Etc.

Here I thought all you guys were on the capitalist
Bandwagon.
Let john deer cast your part in China because they get it
For 8$ vs 32$ cast in the states.
They still get to charge you 150$. No matter where they do it.

What are you all going red on us.

[macdon02]

If there's utter confusion maybe the monetary system just needs a reset, spike the dollar and let's find out what's actually worth anything.... anyone looked or remember how fast it accelerated in 85 before intervention happened and we got on this path? It's very reminiscent, deflation, coming out of high in commods, rates are different but the protectionism was there. Smash it, let's get moving on, it'll be for the best long term. China hasn't tried QE yet, I'll give them that, it's like they don't think they are God like us westerners do, having said that, they depend on us for food and raw materials, and to consume as the gluttons we are. Kicking the debt habit for consumption wouldn't be the worst thing we ever did. But we can't handle the pain of a crash so we cut rates and print and take on more govt debt to give people stuff so the politicians get re-elected. And the cycle starts over... except it's running out of time before they can't juggle it anymore, and I don't think it matters which country your in, the politicians are not getting smarter. Why are smart people not running for govt? That might be the most important question to ask, it's only the self centered narcissist, which i have no use for so they can leave me the eff alone. When we crash it'll be loss of faith in govt as they wont be able to provide. Which is maybe what everyone is looking for in a trade deal or trade war or sustaining the status quo? It'll all just fall apart.

[jimmy]

They are smart very smart some of them they go into politic with a fair amount of net worth and come out fifthly rich on a 190000$ wage some of them end up with millions. Look at old Nancy net worth over 190 million.

[errolanderson]

Total over reaction by the DOW as it usually does. Tomorrow it will be up 10% when they realize just how small the Chinese leverage really is. Trump is putting tarrifs on 500B worth of good. China put them on $60B mostly farm products. Trump targeted their entire economy, Chia target soybeans. Trump can easily give US farmers assistance for a couple yrs. $12B is nothing. But can china do the same on $500B worth of goods? Nope.

Trump can go even further. he can sanction any country that chooses to do business with china. Just like he did to Iran. make countries pick sides. Iran has been cut off from capital and the US banking system. Transactions are still cleared in US dollars, they still have the reserve currency.

China is the largest foreign holder of U.S debt outside the U.S. Federal Reserve itself. China has a Trump card in that they can choose to or not to dump U.S. treasuries. This would force Washington to find new buyers of their debt which means interest rates would have to jump. Not good news for stock markets. This would definitely create market carnage. The U.S. has a little debt problem . . . which is just getting a whole lot worse.

[macdon02]

They are smart very smart some of them they go into politic with a fair amount of net worth and come out fifthly rich on a 190000$ wage some of them end up with millions. Look at old Nancy net worth over 190 million.

That's corruption not brilliance

[jazz]

China is the largest foreign holder of U.S debt outside the U.S. Federal Reserve itself. China has a Trump card in that they can choose to or not to dump U.S. treasuries. This would force Washington to find new buyers of their debt which means interest rates would have to jump. Not good news for stock markets. This would definitely create market carnage. The U.S. has a little debt problem . . . which is just getting a whole lot worse.

Errol, this is a myth as well. Dumping treasuries hurts china just as much, if not more. If that happens the fed cuts rates to counter. The trade deficit actually shrinks as a result. In return China would have to stimulate its economy which would then raise the share prices of US companies operating there who are still listed on the NYSE and NASDAQ. Lots of other buyers for that debt. Trump still wins.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/13/chinas-self-destructive-nuclear-option-in-trade-war-selling-us-treasury-bonds.html China’s ‘self-destructive nuclear option’ in trade war: Selling US Treasury bonds

[ajl]

China has been reducing net holdings of treasuries for some time in order to prop things up at home and yet that treasuries have found buyers as the fed has also been selling its holdings at the same time. There are more buyers for treasuries than sellers as the US dollar is being repatriated home and this is why there is no political appetite for serious spending reduction in the US. Interest rates refuse to go up. Add in the fact that tariff revenue is coming in to help service debt and the is no debt problem in the US. In addition, in a competitive market, sellers pay tariffs, so there has been and will be minimal price increases at US retailers so consumers will hardly notice the tariffs. Once again USA;1, china 0. How long will the chinese play a losing hand we wonder?

[FarmJunkie]

Who cares who Trump screwed. How many hookers did Bill get his weinie sucked by. Trumps a business man Bill was a opportunist. Wish we had a leader like Don instead of Selfie idiot.

[grassfarmer]

Trumps a business man....

A rather poor one by all accounts, if any of us were as bad we'd have had our RB auction by now.

[farmaholic]

A rather poor one by all accounts, if any of us were as bad we'd have had our RB auction by now.

Does it matter how many " business" ventures fail that Trump is involved in as long as he has more feathers in his personal nest at the end, ....I guess he was successful.

Some people separate themselves from business. I haven't.

[sawfly1]

US consumers will be picking up some of the tab for the tarrifs .
There will be price increases with a 25% tariff.
If the object is to bring
Manufacturers backed to the US.
Do you really think the garment
Industry will come back?
1$ an hour compared to what
10$ in the US.
What kind of tarrif do you need to bring that industry back.
400%

Not gonna happen.
Trump will have to tarrif every country in the world .
He is not solving any thing if he does not.
So it will be a tax on the American consumer.
You have to wonder when Trumps
Walmart minions will figure that out
Now is john deere going to eat the extra cost from the tarrif .
Or just charge you 25% more.

Like 25% more might put a US manufacturing co.close to getting the order.
But oh his steel price is up
Because of trump's tarrifs.
And China now has even cheaper
Steel available . Because of same
Tarrifs..
You are sure Trump has thought all this through , are you?

And just to keep the screwing with things . TRUMP and Bolton are trying to start a war with Iraq.

It is Trump of course


Other people will
Die not him.
So he could give a dam.

[jazz]

US consumers will be picking up some of the tab for the tarrifs .
There will be price increases with a 25% tariff.
If the object is to bring
Manufacturers backed to the US.
Do you really think the garment
Industry will come back?
1$ an hour compared to what
10$ in the US.
What kind of tarrif do you need to bring that industry back.
400%

You missed it. He is not trying to bring back the low end junk market. That wont be made here until automation makes it even lower cost. But he can target other items like appliances and iphones which have an enormous mark up. And he doesn't need to get them back on US soil, just off Chinese soil. If they move to Malaysia, Thailand and Vietnam, that's just as good.