Metals mines association, accounting for most federal enviro assessments, OK with Bil

[tweety]

Chuck Chuck, very simple question. How has the carbon tax so far improved the environment? For example, on my farm i still use the same energy, still run the dryer, still run the grain vac and burn exactly the same amount of fossil fuels.

Scheers proposal of scrapping the carbon tax and forcing large polluters to incorporate technology to reduce emissions seems like something that would make a difference - reducing pollution.

If for example all of our farms were considered heavy polluters and required us to reduce emissions by say 15%, or have a limit per bushel of grain production, wouldn't that spur innovation and actually reduce emissions?

Carbon tax is like a 100$ speeding ticket to a millionaire. Pointless. But take away his license, now he'll slow down.

[chuckChuck]

It is obvious you have come to your opinions without ever having dealt with an oil company or been involved with any of the concerns you brought up. There is no point in discussing this any further with someone as ignorant as yourself.

Like most of your speculation you are wrong.

I deal with oil wells and facilities on rented and owned land 365 days a year.

Many of my friends and neighbors work in the oil patch and some of those have or are installing solar systems. They are all a bunch of socialist, environmentalists climate change activists I guess. LOL

Tell us about your vast experience in dealing with oil companies?

[chuckChuck]

Chuck Chuck, very simple question. How has the carbon tax so far improved the environment? For example, on my farm i still use the same energy, still run the dryer, still run the grain vac and burn exactly the same amount of fossil fuels.

Scheers proposal of scrapping the carbon tax and forcing large polluters to incorporate technology to reduce emissions seems like something that would make a difference - reducing pollution.

If for example all of our farms were considered heavy polluters and required us to reduce emissions by say 15%, or have a limit per bushel of grain production, wouldn't that spur innovation and actually reduce emissions?

Carbon tax is like a 100$ speeding ticket to a millionaire. Pointless. But take away his license, now he'll slow down.

Its pretty simple. When prices go up consumption goes down. If you want to test the theory look at what happened when gas prices hit 1.50 per litre in 2008. People were not buying gas guzzling pickup trucks to buy their groceries.

In reality we will need both carbon taxes and regulations. Preston Manning favours carbon taxes because it leaves more choice in the hands of consumers and the marketplace to decide how they will reduce emissions. Ironically it seems like current Conservatives favour more regulations and government intervention and red tape.

Agriculture is exempt from carbon taxes on fuel. Fertilizer will fall under a different program to reduce emissions.

Incentives to innovate would be a better approach in agriculture. Payments for best practices would work.

But the elephant in the room is nitrous oxide. One tonne of nitrous oxide is equivalent to 298 tonnes of carbon dioxide.

So look for programs, practices, and regulations to reduce nitrous oxide in the future.

[tweety]

Its pretty simple. When prices go up consumption goes down. If you want to test the theory look at what happened when gas prices hit 1.50 per litre in 2008. People were not buying gas guzzling pickup trucks to buy their groceries.

In reality we will need both carbon taxes and regulations. Preston Manning favours carbon taxes because it leaves more choice in the hands of consumers and the marketplace to decide how they will reduce emissions. Ironically it seems like current Conservatives favour more regulations and government intervention and red tape.

Agriculture is exempt from carbon taxes on fuel. Fertilizer will fall under a different program to reduce emissions.

Incentives to innovate would be a better approach in agriculture. Payments for best practices would work.

But the elephant in the room is nitrous oxide. One tonne of nitrous oxide is equivalent to 298 tonnes of carbon dioxide.

So look for programs, practices, and regulations to reduce nitrous oxide in the future.

You don't need tax, you need reductions. For a farm, or any business, those reductions will not come from tax. Obviously the current tax has done nothing, but everyone knew that all along including yourself. Reduction isn't the goal, more government income has been the goal all along.

[chuckChuck]

BC has had a long term carbon tax and they have used it to reduce other forms of taxation and now have some of the lowest income tax rates in the country and a strong economy.

The federal program returns most of the carbon tax in a tax credits.

If you reduce carbon emissions then you will pay less tax and still get the credit.

The current carbon tax will have a relatively small impact on most farmers unless they start taxing nitrous oxide.

Becoming more efficient and using less fossil energy is the way of the future. Industries that don't change or won't change will be left behind.

The holistic resource management folks have always asked why cattle ranchers needed to use a bale processor and burn a lot of diesel to feed cows when the cows could feed themselves with controlled bale grazing in many areas? You still see a lot of bale processors running all winter long. Maybe there is s good reason but maybe not. I don't know.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Becoming more efficient and using less fossil energy is the way of the future. Industries that don't change or won't change will be left behind.

Do you mind telling us how an Aluminum smelter, or steel plant is going to cut its energy usage, to give two examples. But they still have to compete with producers from other jurisdictions who don't punish industries with carbon taxes. And we won't suddenly quit using steel and aluminum, so we will import cheaper products from countries who weren't dumb enough to join the cult. Have a bunch more unemployed citizens, and the lost tax base that goes with them and the industry, and the net effect on carbon will be zero.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Like most of your speculation you are wrong.

I deal with oil wells and facilities on rented and owned land 365 days a year.

Many of my friends and neighbors work in the oil patch and some of those have or are installing solar systems. They are all a bunch of socialist, environmentalists climate change activists I guess. LOL

Tell us about your vast experience in dealing with oil companies?

OK, I'll respond once more. Since you are having that much trouble with H2S releases, oil spills, contamination, etc. I highly recommend you call the relevant energy regulator. Not sure which province you claim your imaginary farm is in, but if it is Alberta, then call the AER, if it is a national pipeline, call the NEB, and explain the transgressions. Those fine folks have a very poor sense of humour about such matters and since they have nothing better to do since thanks to the policies of your government there is no new activity going on, so they are well overstaffed and underworked, they will have a large team of white hard hats on your farm to inspect the damages before you even get off the phone. When they inspect the unreported oil spills, H2S leaks etc. the fines, penalties and clean up costs are sure to bankrupt whatever energy company or contractor was negligent enough to have not reported it and completed all prescribed remediation procedures in the first place. Keep in mind that after you have successfully bankrupted them, the surface lease cheques will cease to come in( but being a good hypocrite, I'm sure you have been refusing to cash them all along anyways). And you will be stuck with some orphan wells of your own, so you can learn first hand about that procedure as well.

Please let us know what the results are. If you could share some relevant details, such as location, the energy company, and the nature of the issue, we could likely help you out as well. Seriously, this type of activity is giving the entire industry a bad name, and needs to be addressed. I've never met a company brazen enough to think they could get away with that, but there is a first time for everything.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

OK, I'll respond once more. Since you are having that much trouble with H2S releases, oil spills, contamination, etc. I highly recommend you call the relevant energy regulator. Not sure which province you claim your imaginary farm is in, but if it is Alberta, then call the AER, if it is a national pipeline, call the NEB, and explain the transgressions. Those fine folks have a very poor sense of humour about such matters and since they have nothing better to do since thanks to the policies of your government there is no new activity going on, so they are well overstaffed and underworked, they will have a large team of white hard hats on your farm to inspect the damages before you even get off the phone. When they inspect the unreported oil spills, H2S leaks etc. the fines, penalties and clean up costs are sure to bankrupt whatever energy company or contractor was negligent enough to have not reported it and completed all prescribed remediation procedures in the first place. Keep in mind that after you have successfully bankrupted them, the surface lease cheques will cease to come in( but being a good hypocrite, I'm sure you have been refusing to cash them all along anyways). And you will be stuck with some orphan wells of your own, so you can learn first hand about that procedure as well.

Please let us know what the results are. If you could share some relevant details, such as location, the energy company, and the nature of the issue, we could likely help you out as well. Seriously, this type of activity is giving the entire industry a bad name, and needs to be addressed. I've never met a company brazen enough to think they could get away with that, but there is a first time for everything.

I didn't hear back from you on this very serious issue, just checking to see what you learned when you reported all of the transgressions you were listing?

[chuckChuck]

To busy to go in to detail.

Saskatchewan has lots of issues. I don't know as much about Alberta but in both provinces there have been media reports over the years about problems landowners and residents have had with flaring, H2S, facility leaks. Sickness, cattle deaths, worker deaths

The biggest issue is all the abandoned, orphaned and suspended wells. Who is going to clean them up?

The surface casing runs through aquifers that provide water to many towns and farms. What happens if the surface casing corrodes and leaks saltwater and hydrocarbons into a freshwater aquifer? Nobody will be able to clean that up.

Take a look at NOAA's satellite image of the night time sky tonight in western North Dakota. There are hundreds of gas flares lighting of the sky that make it look like a very populated area. That is an incredible amount of air pollution and a wasted resource. It is still happening across the oilfields of western Canada as well.

https://www.star.nesdis.noaa.gov/GOES/conus.php?sat=G16

[furrowtickler]

To busy to go in to detail.

Saskatchewan has lots of issues. I don't know as much about Alberta but in both provinces there have been media reports over the years about problems landowners and residents have had with flaring, H2S, facility leaks. Sickness, cattle deaths, worker deaths

The biggest issue is all the abandoned, orphaned and suspended wells. Who is going to clean them up?

The surface casing runs through aquifers that provide water to many towns and farms. What happens if the surface casing corrodes and leaks saltwater and hydrocarbons into a freshwater aquifer? Nobody will be able to clean that up.

Take a look at NOAA's satellite image of the night time sky tonight in western North Dakota. There are hundreds of gas flares lighting of the sky that make it look like a very populated area. That is an incredible amount of air pollution and a wasted resource. It is still happening across the oilfields of western Canada as well.

https://www.star.nesdis.noaa.gov/GOES/conus.php?sat=G16

I know who should clean them up 👍
All the useless able body people who refuse to work for living and want to live off the government tit aka the working people’s hard earned tax money .... that’s who.... and covers a lot of demographics in this country.
That and all these “activists” that obviously have absolutely *** all to do with their time .... put them to work

[AlbertaFarmer5]

To busy to go in to detail.

Saskatchewan has lots of issues. I don't know as much about Alberta but in both provinces there have been media reports over the years about problems landowners and residents have had with flaring, H2S, facility leaks. Sickness, cattle deaths, worker deaths

The biggest issue is all the abandoned, orphaned and suspended wells. Who is going to clean them up?

The surface casing runs through aquifers that provide water to many towns and farms. What happens if the surface casing corrodes and leaks saltwater and hydrocarbons into a freshwater aquifer? Nobody will be able to clean that up.

Take a look at NOAA's satellite image of the night time sky tonight in western North Dakota. There are hundreds of gas flares lighting of the sky that make it look like a very populated area. That is an incredible amount of air pollution and a wasted resource. It is still happening across the oilfields of western Canada as well.

https://www.star.nesdis.noaa.gov/GOES/conus.php?sat=G16

Oh OK, I see now, so you just made up all the accusations, they didn't really occur, I believe the legal profession has a term for doing that?

But, just like your promises of imminent catastrophe from global warming, you are now forecasting disasters that will result from the energy industry, since you have no current examples.

And now landowners and residents are having workers die due to oil and gas, and still no one does anything about it? This is getting harder to believe with every post. You should definitely report it every time that happens.

At least we can agree that flaring is an absolute crime against our offspring. Too bad we have been wasting all this time and money fighting CO2 with supposed green energy scams, instead of putting the "waste" gas to use. It would release the same amount of life giving CO2 either way. Just need some pipelines and encourage more end users to put it to use.

[chuckChuck]

I have directly experienced the joy of H2S leaking into my house ventilation system while my family tried to sleep. The new oil well operator left his test tanks open to the atmosphere instead of running a flare untill the flow line was hooked up. It was fixed after we complained.

But in another case the operator shut the flare down at the battery because of a fire risk during a dry fall.

Several batteries got shut down when gas leaks on old equipment were leaking H2S to the atmosphere.

It still happens as you can smell H2S on drives around SE Saskatchewan. It shows up on the air quality monitoring station reports.

There is enforcement but they are understaffed and can't be on top of every complaint quickly.

Flaring is very inefficient process as the small flares often go out and then relight. Burningis an incomplete process

I don't care if you don't think there are problems that need to be fixed. But thoughtful rational people including people in the oil industry and government know it is a problem. But regulations and enforcement are inadequate.