A comparison...

[the big wheel]

Wow the anger here on this issue is interesting. As western Canada being the largest traders of peas and lentils in the world we need new markets for our pulses. India and China take far too high of a percentage of the total production. When they make noises we hurt. There is a new pea plant being built in Portage. I am no fan of fake meat for my own consumption as I like beef and I prefer to eat pulses in their traditional fashion. Hey if you are every going through Fillmore the Tavern there is run by a couple Indian guys who make a prenominal butter chicken. I prefer to see these artificial meat a "gateway" food that we can get the vegetarians of the world to move towards meat like products. We all know a good steak has it over a burger any day!

A good point that yes we should be seeking new markets. I should be thinking only of my business but I can’t help but not like benefitting from hurting the cattlemen or anyone in the meat industry. And would this be a real benefit if we only limit this to our country? Less beef less demand for barley and other things right? We take those barley oat acres out and into peas pretty soon are we less ahead plus no cattlemen?
I don’t like the way it’s being marketed. Tastes just like beef no not really I tried one. It’s so masked with condiments it could be sawdust. And is that where this is headed in the future maybe a tree will be ground up? Why are the meat industries reps not fighting this? Market it as it is a protein grain patty. Are we going to
Lose foreign markets for this marketing it as a burger? They want and eat it instead of meat for a reason.

I enjoy my Canadian produced steak, roast, bacon,chicken wings greatly.

[bucket]

Maybe I am looking at this all wrong....maybe the cattleman and beef guy are not charging enough for their product....

If people are willing to pay 17 bucks a pound for fake meat that isn't competing with steak but the trimmings....

Maybe I should be getting more for my calves....

I know I should be getting more for my peas....which was the point of the thread...

[grassfarmer]

The hamburger price tells me that the middleman is working on razor thin margins, contrary to popular belief.

Not at all there is plenty margin, if you don't believe it try it.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Not at all there is plenty margin, if you don't believe it try it.

Why would I want to try losing money? Everyone Who has tried it around here has failed. There is a reason why packing plants use foreign workers, and virtually every one still hasgone bankrupt, some more than once.

[Guest]

Not at all there is plenty margin, if you don't believe it try it.

grass , i know very little about cattle. Can you tell me what is the value of say an average 2 or 3 yr old dry cow if all was deboned and turned into hamburger ,counting the butchers cut ?
i guess what i am wondering i if i bought that cow , paid to have it killed, cut and wrapped , what would hamburger cost me a pound
i realize there is a lot of different factors , just an average price , if you could?
just curious ?

[bucket]

grass , i know very little about cattle. Can you tell me what is the value of say an average 2 or 3 yr old dry cow if all was deboned and turned into hamburger ,counting the butchers cut ?
i guess what i am wondering i if i bought that cow , paid to have it killed, cut and wrapped , what would hamburger cost me a pound
i realize there is a lot of different factors , just an average price , if you could?
just curious ?

I can tell you the numbers...

The sale price of a good cow was 80 cents ....so a 1500 pound cow is 1200 bucks.

The meat off that cow for ease of argument is about 650 pounds....

The cut and wrapping at my local butcher for that animal would run about 850 bucks...

So 1200 for the cow and 850 for the slaughter is 2050 for 650 pounds of hamburger...3.15 a pound ....

if that makes sense? But don't forget you need a deep freeze to put it as well and power it for the year...etc etc

[jamesb]

A good point that yes we should be seeking new markets. I should be thinking only of my business but I can’t help but not like benefitting from hurting the cattlemen or anyone in the meat industry. And would this be a real benefit if we only limit this to our country? Less beef less demand for barley and other things right? We take those barley oat acres out and into peas pretty soon are we less ahead plus no cattlemen?
I don’t like the way it’s being marketed. Tastes just like beef no not really I tried one. It’s so masked with condiments it could be sawdust. And is that where this is headed in the future maybe a tree will be ground up? Why are the meat industries reps not fighting this? Market it as it is a protein grain patty. Are we going to
Lose foreign markets for this marketing it as a burger? They want and eat it instead of meat for a reason.

I enjoy my Canadian produced steak, roast, bacon,chicken wings greatly.

For beef producers and all meat producers in general there is enormous potential for future consumption. So many people in India and other Asian countries are vegetarian because of economic reasons. In those countries with a growing middle class, meat consumption goes up. As rural people know most cattle are raised on land that cant economically grow crops. City people don't get this. Kinda like the food versus fuel debate in Ethanol and bio diesel with the thinking that ethanol took food out of the mouths of people when it provided a outlet for the oversupply that we as farmers create.

[Guest]

I can tell you the numbers...

The sale price of a good cow was 80 cents ....so a 1500 pound cow is 1200 bucks.

The meat off that cow for ease of argument is about 650 pounds....

The cut and wrapping at my local butcher for that animal would run about 850 bucks...

So 1200 for the cow and 850 for the slaughter is 2050 for 650 pounds of hamburger...3.15 a pound ....

if that makes sense? But don't forget you need a deep freeze to put it as well and power it for the year...etc etc

Thanks bucket
So $2.99 ground beef on sale is a good price then
Abbotoir doin ok on that ?

[bucket]

Thanks bucket
So $2.99 ground beef on sale is a good price then
Abbotoir doin ok on that ?

The local butcher needs some TFW to make him run at capacity but he is in the middle of butt **** nowhere....

[grassfarmer]

That's the catch - the small guys local abattoir has a tough row to hoe with high costs of regulation and the relative inefficiency of a small plant. The big plants can probably still kill and fabricate for $200 so they are $650 a head better off in your model if it were all to be ground - which of course it isn't as there will be higher value cuts coming off a good cull cow too. The big plants have efficiency of scale plus they've had countless infusions of taxpayer money to make them more efficient. That's why small or startup slaughter plants have a tough time - not because there isn't a margin between live animal and beef product. The winners were picked in this game a long time ago and it isn't the rancher or the small processor.

[the big wheel]

Maybe it would be better instead of big subsidies to the large packers to assist the local
Smaller plants. Wouldn’t there be a created increase use of local beef? Good for smaller towns good for the rancher. Get a price similar to the supermarket or better We haven’t bought beef at the store for a a long time. Quality is rhe reason.

[grassfarmer]

Yeah, that ship sailed a long time ago - when the AB Government enticed Cargill to High River and agreed never to allow any competition.

[GDR]

Thanks bucket
So $2.99 ground beef on sale is a good price then
Abbotoir doin ok on that ?

To add to buckets and grassfarmers posts you butcher that cow you still get tenderloin, stew meat, soup bones, tenderized steak etc and the biggest difference is the burger is not like your regular store bought, it will be more like an extra lean more pricey burger, likely better. Retailers put a lot of fat and trimmings and water in their burger that you would not get doing your own.

We butchered (not for burger)a 4yr old cow last fall that was in good condition gave her a bit of barley for a month and it is as good of beef as any young steer we have done yet if I'd have sold her she would have been the 80 cent cow. Wouldn't try that with a 20 yr old beast though!

Another difference on the individual vs the packers they sell the hides, bone meal,blood meal etc where they can and make money on all that too, they are doing just fine.

[tweety]

The reality of feed conversion ratio, water use, and the dismal protein conversion efficiency. For example beef is 2.5% and chicken is 21%.

1 kg of Beef produces 35 kg of CO2 while chicken 4.5
High levels of methane and nitrous make beef an easy target for making it out to destroy the environment.

Beyond meat isn't the beef industry's problem, It's being the poster child of waste and cause of climate change. Good marketing will keep focusing on that fact which beef can't even begin to push back on. Do yourself a reality check and have a Farmers Breakfast wrap at Timmies, they are actually quite good.

Cost will come down significantly for isolate based proteins, more companies are already getting in on the action. More and more really good home made beyond meat recipes will replace even more "evil" beef.

But since Ag sucks at anything to do with public perception, they'll just keep calling it names and dog food while the ship sinks.

[samhill]

From what I recall in science class in high school was that Homo sapiens evolved living on nuts, berries, grasses etc . Not till they began to kill and eat meat did the brain develop somewhat similar as today with the ability to make and use sophisticated tools.
Planet of troglodytes we were.