Fun fact of the day ....

[furrowtickler]

Has anyone tried planting soybeans without Cruiser Maxx Beans in a side by-side trial with CMB? I no longer believe the lines used by the chem co's regarding "Vigor trigger" and full protection, etc. These seed treatments are designed to kill biology in the soil. They are fungi-CIDES (kill). The Bradyrhizobium japonicum strain of bacteria that gets applied to the beans are susceptible to getting killed, or at least quite thinned out by the application of the two simultaneously. I apply these for my clients and after what we saw with 96 replicated trials on our barley, I am planning in the future on only putting on an inoculant and possibly a compost tea biological product to enhance the inoculant efficacy.

What we found with our trials was quite disturbing. In every one of the 96 trials, there was a significant delay in emergence on the pink treated seed. The replicates treated with a biological only, or even BARE seed, were at least 7 to 9 cm ahead of the pink stuff. When, after 64 trials I called the Rep looking for answers, he was dumbfounded and couldn't offer anything that would explain what I was finding. Taking these out to field scale level, there was a 5 day delay with emergence on the pink compared to the seed treated with just a compost tea seed treatment. Again, why? The rep promised me to get some answers. I am still waiting. As a result of those 96 replicated trials and field scale trials this spring, we only treated one customer with the pink stuff. After hearing what our experiences were, every one of my clients elected to have the biological seed treatment applied. and to date, every one of them has been happy with the results.

I have grown and sold beans for 11 years, and never once gave it a second thought that what I was applying to the seed was wiping out a large portion of mine and my clients inoculants. This is why I am thinking that double inoculating works so well. In actual fact, we are only single inoculating the "double" as the seed treated inoc is drastically reduced in numbers (or wiped out) by the fungicide doing what it is supposed to. I just drank the Koolaid they were feeding us seed sellers and thanked them for the big cheque we received at the end of the year for peddling their product to our clients.

By the way, I did get out of the rep that they only do their own in-house trials on soil potting mix...yup...the stuff that has been steam sterilized to kill off ANY biology in the soil. That REALLY represents our farms in field scale conditions, doesn't it?

To wrap up, farmers need to start doing their own trials, on their own farms, under their management to prove out some of this stuff.

It is my contention that we as producers have been lulled into the position of having our operations being nothing more than a money laundering facility for multi-national corporations to move their raw product though us and and have us turn it into cash for the benefit of their shareholders.

Thoughts?

Patrick

I think your bang on Patrick .... our non “treated” beans look excellent and had much faster early growth.
Combine will tell the tail, I just hope ours make it. Very close to losing them early this morning 🥶

[farmaholic]

Yikes....
I think you may have an ally with furrowtickler.

Just keep spending and give it everything you can and they offer....every application of product has a predetermined ROI.......for them!

Bwahahahaha hahaha hahaha.

I believe most people know fungicides aren't completely selective and only target one fungus.
Use sparingly and only when required. Besides there are only 3 common groups and a fringe one that I'm aware of.

Breeding in greater tolerance or resistance is the way to go as far.as I'm concerned.

So what do seed treatments really get you? Two weeks of protection and then you're on your own?
We seldom treat anything. Expensive pretty coloured stuff.....

[grassfarmer]

....It is my contention that we as producers have been lulled into the position of having our operations being nothing more than a money laundering facility for multi-national corporations to move their raw product though us and and have us turn it into cash for the benefit of their shareholders.

Thoughts?

Patrick

I think that's a fair assessment.

[GDR]

Has anyone tried planting soybeans without Cruiser Maxx Beans in a side by-side trial with CMB? I no longer believe the lines used by the chem co's regarding "Vigor trigger" and full protection, etc. These seed treatments are designed to kill biology in the soil. They are fungi-CIDES (kill). The Bradyrhizobium japonicum strain of bacteria that gets applied to the beans are susceptible to getting killed, or at least quite thinned out by the application of the two simultaneously. I apply these for my clients and after what we saw with 96 replicated trials on our barley, I am planning in the future on only putting on an inoculant and possibly a compost tea biological product to enhance the inoculant efficacy.

What we found with our trials was quite disturbing. In every one of the 96 trials, there was a significant delay in emergence on the pink treated seed. The replicates treated with a biological only, or even BARE seed, were at least 7 to 9 cm ahead of the pink stuff. When, after 64 trials I called the Rep looking for answers, he was dumbfounded and couldn't offer anything that would explain what I was finding. Taking these out to field scale level, there was a 5 day delay with emergence on the pink compared to the seed treated with just a compost tea seed treatment. Again, why? The rep promised me to get some answers. I am still waiting. As a result of those 96 replicated trials and field scale trials this spring, we only treated one customer with the pink stuff. After hearing what our experiences were, every one of my clients elected to have the biological seed treatment applied. and to date, every one of them has been happy with the results.

I have grown and sold beans for 11 years, and never once gave it a second thought that what I was applying to the seed was wiping out a large portion of mine and my clients inoculants. This is why I am thinking that double inoculating works so well. In actual fact, we are only single inoculating the "double" as the seed treated inoc is drastically reduced in numbers (or wiped out) by the fungicide doing what it is supposed to. I just drank the Koolaid they were feeding us seed sellers and thanked them for the big cheque we received at the end of the year for peddling their product to our clients.

By the way, I did get out of the rep that they only do their own in-house trials on soil potting mix...yup...the stuff that has been steam sterilized to kill off ANY biology in the soil. That REALLY represents our farms in field scale conditions, doesn't it?

To wrap up, farmers need to start doing their own trials, on their own farms, under their management to prove out some of this stuff.

It is my contention that we as producers have been lulled into the position of having our operations being nothing more than a money laundering facility for multi-national corporations to move their raw product though us and and have us turn it into cash for the benefit of their shareholders.

Thoughts?

Patrick

Thanks for sharing your trial and results, much more useful than the usual political nonsense on agriville!

[the big wheel]

Thanks for sharing that info. Not unlike the volunteer canola that germinated with no moisture and the treated stuff just sat and sat until a much bigger rain came.

[Guest]

Has anyone tried planting soybeans without Cruiser Maxx Beans in a side by-side trial with CMB? I no longer believe the lines used by the chem co's regarding "Vigor trigger" and full protection, etc. These seed treatments are designed to kill biology in the soil. They are fungi-CIDES (kill). The Bradyrhizobium japonicum strain of bacteria that gets applied to the beans are susceptible to getting killed, or at least quite thinned out by the application of the two simultaneously. I apply these for my clients and after what we saw with 96 replicated trials on our barley, I am planning in the future on only putting on an inoculant and possibly a compost tea biological product to enhance the inoculant efficacy.

What we found with our trials was quite disturbing. In every one of the 96 trials, there was a significant delay in emergence on the pink treated seed. The replicates treated with a biological only, or even BARE seed, were at least 7 to 9 cm ahead of the pink stuff. When, after 64 trials I called the Rep looking for answers, he was dumbfounded and couldn't offer anything that would explain what I was finding. Taking these out to field scale level, there was a 5 day delay with emergence on the pink compared to the seed treated with just a compost tea seed treatment. Again, why? The rep promised me to get some answers. I am still waiting. As a result of those 96 replicated trials and field scale trials this spring, we only treated one customer with the pink stuff. After hearing what our experiences were, every one of my clients elected to have the biological seed treatment applied. and to date, every one of them has been happy with the results.

I have grown and sold beans for 11 years, and never once gave it a second thought that what I was applying to the seed was wiping out a large portion of mine and my clients inoculants. This is why I am thinking that double inoculating works so well. In actual fact, we are only single inoculating the "double" as the seed treated inoc is drastically reduced in numbers (or wiped out) by the fungicide doing what it is supposed to. I just drank the Koolaid they were feeding us seed sellers and thanked them for the big cheque we received at the end of the year for peddling their product to our clients.

By the way, I did get out of the rep that they only do their own in-house trials on soil potting mix...yup...the stuff that has been steam sterilized to kill off ANY biology in the soil. That REALLY represents our farms in field scale conditions, doesn't it?

To wrap up, farmers need to start doing their own trials, on their own farms, under their management to prove out some of this stuff.

It is my contention that we as producers have been lulled into the position of having our operations being nothing more than a money laundering facility for multi-national corporations to move their raw product though us and and have us turn it into cash for the benefit of their shareholders.

Thoughts?

Patrick

Well done seedman. Old news here. Big pharma tries to push double and triple rate inoculant to the sheeple. The future of farming is biological as I've said. That's why gly has no future

[furrowtickler]

I will agree on the biologicals to a point , but they have a ways to go yet.
We got promised the world on a product last year , ended up with zero results on 12 trials I did in this area.
Problem is , like the massive amount of “micro nutrients” that have flooded western Canada the past 5 years there is very little control on these products. They don’t even have to label what’s all in them.
That should be a big concern to farmers, and the industry . Same goes for the biological products ...... near zero regulation .
A lot of wild promises are being made with these products , and some have merit in theory , but reality is the farmers will decide .
It would be interesting if you , Austrandia, could lay off the glyphosate bashing , a product proven to work 99% of the time and show data on the wonders of biologicals . Many on here would actually be interested. But the constant bashing of what we do has gotten so very very old I doubt anyone will listen sadly.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=furrowtickler , but reality is the farmers will decide ..[/QUOTE]

Reality is the consumer will decide.

[furrowtickler]

Reality is the consumer will decide.

So the consumer not worried about biological products with no clue as to effects later or potentially harmful ingredients???

[Guest]

I will agree on the biologicals to a point , but they have a ways to go yet.
We got promised the world on a product last year , ended up with zero results on 12 trials I did in this area.
Problem is , like the massive amount of “micro nutrients” that have flooded western Canada the past 5 years there is very little control on these products. They don’t even have to label what’s all in them.
That should be a big concern to farmers, and the industry . Same goes for the biological products ...... near zero regulation .
A lot of wild promises are being made with these products , and some have merit in theory , but reality is the farmers will decide .
It would be interesting if you , Austrandia, could lay off the glyphosate bashing , a product proven to work 99% of the time and show data on the wonders of biologicals . Many on here would actually be interested. But the constant bashing of what we do has gotten so very very old I doubt anyone will listen sadly.

Bayer is into biologicals, will you listen to them, will you trust them?

[macdon02]

Seems Canada is one of the lowest users of pesticides on the planet. Im guessing it's due to cost.

[furrowtickler]

Bayer is into biologicals, will you listen to them, will you trust them?

Could care less about Bayer