Chuck, true cost renewables

[AlbertaFarmer5]

One group who thinks they know how everyone else should do things and really never get much accomplished themselves actually ......Left brain mentality.
The other group just does what needs to be done , knows how to actually work and thinks for themselves, right brain mentality, but gets scrutinized by group one while actually creating the wealth for all .
Group one just try’s to ride off the hard work of group two’s wealth creation.
That’s called deadbeats to society.

Yes , opened that can of worms lol ....
slow harvest again

You just described the "green energy" proponents to a tee. They don't produce anything useful, they tell everyone else how it should be done, the remaining productive members of society are forced to pay for their folly and of course bail them out and provide the useful energy required to back up their unreliables.

In spite of all the hype and money spent, wind and solar still only produce 3% of world energy, fossil fuels produce over 80%, hydro and nuclear the majority of the remainder). A similar ratio (and hype) applies to socialists vs. productive members of society.

[Oliver88]

Chucky, dear Chucky, I can fire up that combine everyday, all day because of good ol fossil fuel, I don’t wait for the sun to shine or wind to blow. Capeech?

I’m thinking Chucky must be thankful for SaskPower’s coal fired electrical generation powering up his fans 95% of the time.

The math isn’t there for a serious solar power setup in a cold climate like Saskatchewan.

[Guest]

I’m thinking Chucky must be thankful for SaskPower’s coal fired electrical generation powering up his fans 95% of the time.

The math isn’t there for a serious solar power setup in a cold climate like Saskatchewan.

especially when it won't work in sunny texas

[AlbertaFarmer5]

I’m thinking Chucky must be thankful for SaskPower’s coal fired electrical generation powering up his fans 95% of the time.

The math isn’t there for a serious solar power setup in a cold climate like Saskatchewan.

Who he should be thankful to is you and every other responsible SaskPower customer for subsidizing his bill every single month. You are paying substantially higher rates so that Chuck can sell his power to Saskpower for a few hours a day randomly and unpredictably, whether they need it or not, then they are forced to sell power back to him at the same rates, regardless of demand or supply or cost at that time. And you are incurring all of those costs for him. All of the spinning reserve, all of the load shedding, all of the additional and unnecessary infrastructure. He just doesn't come across as being all that grateful, considering how generous you all have been to him.

[chuckChuck]

Who he should be thankful to is you and every other responsible SaskPower customer for subsidizing his bill every single month. You are paying substantially higher rates so that Chuck can sell his power to Saskpower for a few hours a day randomly and unpredictably, whether they need it or not, then they are forced to sell power back to him at the same rates, regardless of demand or supply or cost at that time. And you are incurring all of those costs for him. All of the spinning reserve, all of the load shedding, all of the additional and unnecessary infrastructure. He just doesn't come across as being all that grateful, considering how generous you all have been to him.

A5 you are so full of made up bullshit.

1. There is currently very little solar capacity in Saskatchewan. So blaming the solar net metering program for having any influence on prices is stupid.

2. Saskpower is installing a whole lot of wind and natural gas capacity. Plus planning to import hydro from Manitoba to meet their goal of 50% renewables by 2030. Much of the cost of electricity is borne by the whole grid system costs and the maintenance, not the generation source.

3. Utility rates in Saskatchewan are regulated and reviewed by the Saskatchewan Rate Review Panel.

But don't let facts get in the way of your crusade to illogically blame renewable energy sources for increased costs.

Saskatchewan farmers currently pay less than the actual market costs to deliver electricity to their farms. They are hugely outnumbered by residential customers who are paying higher rates even though the cost of deliverring electricity to them is lower because they are concentrated in cities and towns.

[newguy]

What is the cost of ignoring new energy ideas.And why would anyone feel threatened by alternative energy.?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

What is the cost of ignoring new energy ideas.And why would anyone feel threatened by alternative energy.?

Solar and wind are not new energy ideas. Wind mills to harness wind and use it to perform work go back to the 5th century in Persia, and 14th century in Holland. Long before that for sailing ships.
Photovoltaic goes back to 1954.

I am open to any and all new energy ideas, we will need them all to maintain our standards of living and rates of growth.

I only feel threatened because EVERY SINGLE TIME "RENEWABLES" ARE INSTALLED, THE COSTS GO UP FOR EVERYONE. Chuck has been trying to find an example of where this didn't happen, and he hasn't, because it doesn't exist. If you want to install the systems, and go off the grid, I support you 100%. But the minute you grid tie and want to use the grid for storage at price parity it starts costing everyone else.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

A5 you are so full of made up bullshit.

1. There is currently very little solar capacity in Saskatchewan. So blaming the solar net metering program for having any influence on prices is stupid.

2. Saskpower is installing a whole lot of wind and natural gas capacity. Plus planning to import hydro from Manitoba to meet their goal of 50% renewables by 2030. Much of the cost of electricity is borne by the whole grid system costs and the maintenance, not the generation source.

3. Utility rates in Saskatchewan are regulated and reviewed by the Saskatchewan Rate Review Panel.

But don't let facts get in the way of your crusade to illogically blame renewable energy sources for increased costs.

All you have to do to prove me wrong is show me a jurisdiction where they installed renewable energy, and the costs didn't go up disproportionately.

And as you correctly keep pointing out, renewables are an insignificant portion of Saskatchewan generation currently, but have already done significant damage to costs. And as you also keep pointing out, rates will only get much worse as they attempt to meet their goal of 50%. And no, hydro is no longer considered renewable, I don't make up the rules.

Utility can't lose money, so of course the review panel will increase rates as costs increase. That is the beautiful part of being a utility, they can pass their costs on to their consumers. In an era and province of nearly free natural gas, those rates should be dropping, can you explain why they are not?

[pgluca]

Solar and Wind energy need 100% back up with conventional power for those winter evenings when there is a polar high pressure over the prairies. Like AF5 said the cost is passed on to every power user.
We are paying for two systems and the powerlines all over the country to collect from the widely scattered solar and wind installations. I am currently looking out my window at a developing wind farm spread over a 20 by 20 mile area that will contain 172 turbines. I am not only subsidizing them with my power bill but also with my taxes.
For private installations part of the subsidy is the fact that at present you are paid the same rate for power from your solar panels or wind turbines as the power you are receiving from the grid when your system is producing nothing. In what situation is a constantly available source no more valuable than occasional power?? If it was worth 1/4 or 1/3 that would be generous.
That said I have personally been considering a solar array myself, if indeed I had any assurance that the terms would remain as favorable as they are now I might go ahead. I would like to use an electric vehicle, performance is incredible but I have concerns about the range with cabin heat on in the winter at low temperature. The subsidies to buy and install are generous however there are some rather draconian audit requirements and they won't let you do much yourself. Also there is the concern about the durability of the panels themselves. Payback is years away and although they are supposed to last 25 years, if they don't 10 or 15 years from now what is the chance that the company that sold them to you is still in business. Think siding and shingle companies...….. The same would apply to the wind turbines, I have been told that the huge wind farm on the California and Arizona border is now off line and not worth repairing. ( I have not verified that. )
Watching the incredible amount of money and materials going into the nearby wind farm, I cannot imagine that we are actually going to have less pollution and use less resources than we would if we just tweaked our conventional power sources.

[fjlip]

The costs are NEVER recovered, a make work feel good waste of resources.
"am currently looking out my window at a developing wind farm spread over a 20 by 20 mile area that will contain 172 turbines."
I hope you are able to sleep when they all WHIRRRRR, and keep your sanity!

[chuckChuck]

If subsidies are the biggest issue then why are you ignoring the subsidies to and external hidden costs of fossil fuels?

Farmers in Saskatchewan are already receiving subsidized electricity rates below the actual cost of delivering electricity to a relatively small number of widely dispersed farms.

Its obvious most of you are not concerned about subsidies to fossil fuels. Your concern only seems to be subsidies to renewable sources.

Integrating numerous types of electrical generation sources into any grid system is a complex process.
Any claim that that renewables are the only factor that is causing price increases across all systems is baloney.

There are a 195 countries in the world all providing electricity to some or all of their citizens. To suggest in every single case that integrating renewables is increasing costs is laughable. In many developing countries solar and wind are bringing electricity to rural citizens that never had electricity before.

In the case of net metering solar systems in Saskatchewan, Sask Power's additional capital costs are the two way meter which costs a few hundred dollars at most. They also provide about a 20% rebate on systems (about 60 cents per watt of installed capacity). There are no additional transmission lines required as the systems are all hooked up to existing lines. They also have some design, planning and administration costs which are relatively small. The rest of the system is paid for and maintained by the owner.

The goal of Sask Power is reduce carbon emissions. Wind, solar, natural gas, and imported hydro electricity are the strategies that they are using. Geo thermal may be added to the options in the future. They are still considering carbon capture and storage. But that is a more expensive option.

If you want more details on the cost of reducing emissions and integrating renewables then you should ask them.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

If you really think that those are the only costs you are enforcing on the rest of the responsible Sask Power users, then you are delusional.

Look up spinning reserve/standby, or how inefficient generating plants are when running below capacity for unpredictable portions of the day. The fixed costs remains the same regardless of output, much like they do on a farm. Research load shedding, having to purchaseemergency power from neighboring systems(ask Mallee how expensive that can getting Compare the operational costs of a peaking plant vs traditional. Check out the controls required to balance the unpredictable supplies, and the expensive costs when they fail to do so(including lawsuits in Australia right now).

Then name us one industry who is mandated to sell their product at the same rate they were forced to buy it at.

[LEP]

Another issue with all these small localized power sources is that staff never know if they have killed all the power to a line that they are working on.

Everything must be treated like it is live. It's slower and not everything can be done on a live line such as maintenance and repair of certain switches and equipment.

A friend of mine who is a Saskpower employee is worried someone is going to die.

[fjlip]

We know of man who died, could be as simple as solar panel killer.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Any claim that that renewables are the only factor that is causing price increases across all systems is baloney.

There are a 195 countries in the world all providing electricity to some or all of their citizens. To suggest in every single case that integrating renewables is increasing costs is laughable.

I only suggest that because the track record is perfect.

Well then, it should be really simple to prove that by providing an example of where adding renewables hasn't resulted in drastically higher electricity rates relative to comparable areas who have not.

And it is only laughable if you are one of the ones laughing all the way to the bank by getting in on the ground floor of the scam. None of the other rate payers are laughing at all. Ask Mallee how funny his power bills are, or the brown outs?