A note to Western Canada: The rest of the country understands tough economic times

[flea beetle]

I see you must be drinking again. I mean I have no idea what moving ag products down the Mississippi has to do with my question to you about what government policies stopping production of oil and gas in western Canada or if I shut down my farm or moved to Iowa. Do try to keep up Jazz, and if you do want to reply, try to reply to the actual question I asked of you. I will repeat it: "Name the actual government POLICIES that are preventing production of oil and gas in western Canada. And given your statement I will add on what government policies are preventing market access?"

Shelving of pipelines? Oil tanker ban on the west coast? This was answered already above, you just ignore it and keep asking the same question and acting like you are right.

[dmlfarmer]

But, but, but
We had a thriving oilpatch here?
Keebek and east coast is getting blood stained oil from middle east where they still stone “their” women and practice female circumcision ?
But thats ok , right , because fort mac is dirty
Nothing too do with govt attitude in canada , no cant be?
Wait , maybe buisness likes trumps attitude to real life better;
You know , you hafta work if you can or you dont eat
Even if those ungrateful ****suckers in keebek and on the east coast bought our oil it would help
Oh wait we have a “no pipeline bill” from this govt, so we cant get it there

Okay, questions for you caseih: How much oil does the government of Canada buy from the middle east? Or is it actually private companies like Irving Oil that are buying middle eastern oil to use in their privately owned refineries? Are you that much of a socialist that you think Canada should be able to tell private industry where and where not they should buy their oil from? If Irvings can import oil from the middle east AND THE US cheaper than they can from Alberta, is it not a benefit to the Canadian economy because of lower refined gas and diesel costs used in everything from transportation to manufacturing?Do you not think that falling global oil prices and the fact that Irving Oil would not commit to buying WCS crude or spending the estimated 1 Billion dollars it would have required to be able to refine WCS had as much to do with Trans Canada pipe dropping the application for Energy east as environmental opposition?
Or how about the fact that even with projected increases in production, not all proposed pipelines would have been needed. We would have overbuilt if Line 3, XL, Trans mountain, and Energy east all proceeded.
But why worry about such details when you simply can name call and hate eastern Canadians and Liberals.

[dmlfarmer]

Shelving of pipelines? Oil tanker ban on the west coast? This was answered already above, you just ignore it and keep asking the same question and acting like you are right.

Shelving of pipelines: No, the government actually bought Trans mountain and expansion has started. Line 3 reversal has happened, XL is held up in the US not by Canada government, and Trans Canada dropped the application for Energy East, it was not shut down.

I will grant you bill C48 which bans tankers over a certain size from northern BC waters could be seen as limiting market access, but I question how much it limits production.



Give me the federal policies stopping oil and gas production in western Canada

[flea beetle]

Shelving of pipelines: No, the government actually bought Trans mountain and expansion has started. Line 3 reversal has happened, XL is held up in the US not by Canada government, and Trans Canada dropped the application for Energy East, it was not shut down.



Give me the federal policies stopping oil and gas production in western Canada

So the federal government can mandate a carbon tax on provinces, but can’t mandate they let a pipeline go through or let oil tankers move product? Hogwash and a lame excuse.

The federal government bought trans mountain because they didn’t have the backbone to stand up to special interest groups. Why not just say this is the way it is gonna go down like they did with the carbon tax? Energy east was also given up on because the government refused to stand up to special interest groups so trans Canada gave up.

Refusal to do anything is just as bad as putting bad policy in place.

[Guest]

Okay, questions for you caseih: How much oil does the government of Canada buy from the middle east? Or is it actually private companies like Irving Oil that are buying middle eastern oil to use in their privately owned refineries? Are you that much of a socialist that you think Canada should be able to tell private industry where and where not they should buy their oil from? If Irvings can import oil from the middle east AND THE US cheaper than they can from Alberta, is it not a benefit to the Canadian economy because of lower refined gas and diesel costs used in everything from transportation to manufacturing?Do you not think that falling global oil prices and the fact that Irving Oil would not commit to buying WCS crude or spending the estimated 1 Billion dollars it would have required to be able to refine WCS had as much to do with Trans Canada pipe dropping the application for Energy east as environmental opposition?
Or how about the fact that even with projected increases in production, not all proposed pipelines would have been needed. We would have overbuilt if Line 3, XL, Trans mountain, and Energy east all proceeded.
But why worry about such details when you simply can name call and hate eastern Canadians and Liberals.

I dont know , can you go buy cheaper chemicals in the US?
Lord knows there a lot cheaper
A friend tried to buy a grain dryer there new , couldnt . The list goes on and on
Why in **** isnt there a tanker ban on the east coast ?
Surely you arent this naieve
Maybe if we werent sending billions in trans payments to the ungrateful pricks it wouldnt bother me so much
See if you can import some cheap gas or diesel from the US if you think govt doesnt get involved
Those ****ing refineries on the east coast should be told to use Cdn oil or **** off

[6V53]

Liberals dropped the dollar, all that did was make everything more expensive, didn't help grain price or boost exports. Just lowered our standard of living.

[TASFarms]

[QUOTE=dmlfarmer;430868]Okay, questions for you caseih: How much oil does the government of Canada buy from the middle east? Or is it actually private companies like Irving Oil that are buying middle eastern oil to use in their privately owned refineries? Are you that much of a socialist that you think Canada should be able to tell private industry where and where not they should buy their oil from? If Irvings can import oil from the middle east AND THE US cheaper than they can from Alberta, is it not a benefit to the Canadian economy because of lower refined gas and diesel costs used in everything from transportation to manufacturing?Do you not think that falling global oil prices and the fact that Irving Oil would not commit to buying WCS crude or spending the estimated 1 Billion dollars it would have required to be able to refine WCS had as much to do with Trans Canada pipe dropping the application for Energy east as environmental opposition?
Or how about the fact that even with projected increases in production, not all proposed pipelines would have been needed. We would have overbuilt if Line 3, XL, Trans mountain, and Energy east all proceeded.
But why worry about such details when you simply can name call and hate eastern Canadians and Liberals.[/QUOTEi

If all those pipelines went in on time maybe there wouldn’t have been 100 billion in capital that left the county to pump oil in the USA

[bucket]

Are you that much of a socialist that you think Canada should be able to tell private industry where and where not they should buy their oil from?


Yes because I have seen graincos wreck highways having grain trucked out as a transfer instead of using the railway. ..so when people say you can't tell private companies what to do....maybe private companies shouldn't be able to send the infrastructure bill of the highways for their logistic gains. ...

[AlbertaFarmer5]

[QUOTE=TASFarms;430884]

Okay, questions for you caseih: How much oil does the government of Canada buy from the middle east? Or is it actually private companies like Irving Oil that are buying middle eastern oil to use in their privately owned refineries? Are you that much of a socialist that you think Canada should be able to tell private industry where and where not they should buy their oil from? If Irvings can import oil from the middle east AND THE US cheaper than they can from Alberta, is it not a benefit to the Canadian economy because of lower refined gas and diesel costs used in everything from transportation to manufacturing?Do you not think that falling global oil prices and the fact that Irving Oil would not commit to buying WCS crude or spending the estimated 1 Billion dollars it would have required to be able to refine WCS had as much to do with Trans Canada pipe dropping the application for Energy east as environmental opposition?
Or how about the fact that even with projected increases in production, not all proposed pipelines would have been needed. We would have overbuilt if Line 3, XL, Trans mountain, and Energy east all proceeded.
But why worry about such details when you simply can name call and hate eastern Canadians and Liberals.[/QUOTEi

If all those pipelines went in on time maybe there wouldn’t have been 100 billion in capital that left the county to pump oil in the USA

Exactly. This was a race to access the export markets before the shale boom saturated and disrupted them all. While we dithered and pontificated about pipelines and tanker bans, the US won the race, and now there is no need for that much export capacity from Canada, and therefore there is less need for investment in the industry, which leads to less need for export capacity, a vicious circle. The demand is stronger than ever, and growing, it is just someone else filling it. If the infrastucture would have been in place here, and the investment in production would have matched it, we would have captured a large part of that demand, at the expense of our competitors.

While much of this race and unnecessary delays took place prior to Trudeau/Butts and their public anti industry rhetoric and policies, the regime change came at a critical moment, literally the last chance, and we blew it.

What every well intentioned Socialist misses, is the fact that capital is mobile, and the economy is global. If we were the only game in town, their ideas might work quite adequately, but we are not.

Check out the CBC interview with the founder of Encana. He repeats over and over that it is all about the hostile business climate in Canada now. He emphasises that Alberta oil and gas is cost competitive, but the business climate is anything but.

It doesn't do a whole lot of good to be cheaper if you can't move it. Alberta has a very efficient operation. In fact, Alberta can be totally competitive on a production basis, and profitable — with the United States that's for sure. But it's all about business climate. We're talking about investors.

The full interview:
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-thursday-edition-1.5343023/encana-moving-to-u-s-because-of-canadian-hostility-to-oil-and-gas-says-founder-1.5344522 https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-thursday-edition-1.5343023/encana-moving-to-u-s-because-of-canadian-hostility-to-oil-and-gas-says-founder-1.5344522

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Quote from Trudeau:

“We can’t shut down the oilsands tomorrow. We need to phase them out. We need to manage the transition off of our dependence on fossil fuels but it’s going to take time and in the meantime we have to manage that transition,”

Quote from Gerald Butts (Puppet master):

“Truth be told, we don’t think there ought to be a carbon-based energy industry by the middle of this century. That’s our policy in Canada and it’s our policy all over the world…

We think the oilsands have been expanded too rapidly without a serious plan for environmental remediation in the first place. So, that’s why we don’t think it’s up to us to decide whether there should be another route for a pipeline because the real alternative is not an alternative route – it’s an alternative economy.”

Would you invest in an industry in a country where the two most powerful people make statements such as that?

[blackpowder]

And I'm sure the exact same carbon footprint study is placed on imported Middle East oil and it's transportation as was our own.
Good thing keebec got it's hydro projects built (to export power outside the equalization formula) before the rules were applied to everyone else.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

You're the one playing with words as a deflection from answering the question. AB is hurting because oil demand and prices slumped globally. AB has market access, the same access they had through the last oil boom when they were printing and spending money like there was no tomorrow. What they are wanting now is increased capacity to ship more product to the world market that is still suffering reduced demand and prices. They want to sell more for less, and make it up on volume which is not a smart strategy at the best of times.

Grassfarmer, we don't always agree, but normally you stick to the facts and make bulletproof, well researched points. But you have obviously been spending too much time with Chuck, if you somehow think that oil demand has been reduced or slumped. He seems to post at least once a week about the collapsing oil and fossil fuel demand, yet reality is it keeps on growing, oblivious to all the dire forecasts of the likes of Chuck.

This story has nothing to do with reduced demand, it is all about who is filling the increased demand( hint, it is not us with no increased export capacity). And that demand is increasing in no small part due to the decline in prices, exactly the way free market predicts it would.