Just for you Chuck

[Guest]

and why doesn't 22 minutes do a segment on keebek separatists , not just alberta ???
ignorant assholes

[dmlfarmer]

yes , but will be a while lot less leaches living off the working folks
and maybe western cities will appreciate it just a tiny bit , not like that ignorant son of a bitch in keebek

And there will be a lot less working folks to pay for the same services which people will still expect. Furthermore, the west will now need more leeches of their own to do things which are currently done down east. Unless you think people will not expect the same services they get now. I think they will expect even more - or why else separate if there is no gain.

[dmlfarmer]

DML, even if those cities turn part red or orange in a new state, the rural would have a much better balanced representation against it versus Toronto and Montreal. When issues are closer to their power base they get dealt with. Everyone in Calgary knows what a pump jack or canola field is. Try that in Montreal.

You are dreaming if you think everyone in Calgary knows agriculture. Go into any classroom and you will be shocked how little students know about where their food comes from. And as long as there is rep by population, there will never be balanced representation between rural and urban voters.

[furrowtickler]

And there will be a lot less working folks to pay for the same services which people will still expect. Furthermore, the west will now need more leeches of their own to do things which are currently done down east. Unless you think people will not expect the same services they get now. I think they will expect even more - or why else separate if there is no gain.

What services would that be ???

[chuckChuck]

Many rural kids are now like urban kids. Most of their free time is spent on phones looking at videos, games and various social media. Rural culture is slowly changing and disappearing as new generations take over.

[dmlfarmer]

What services would that be ???

well, lets start with the ones that will affect ag. all trade agreements for commodities would have to be renegotiated. Because Europe agreed to buy ag commodities from Canada does not mean that agreement will be in effect with the Republic of Redneckia. Registration of Chemicals and establishment of western MRls will require a whole new bureaucracy as PMRA would no longer represent Canada. We would need to set up our own trade offices around the world to sell commodities that are currently manned and paid for by all Canadians. We would need a new currency or would end up like the Europeans where countries have no control over their own finances. Federal subsidies currently paid to western producers out of general revenues would have to come from fewer taxpayers including ag invest, crop insurance, etc. And speaking of taxes, just think of the cost of having to set up a new tax department/pension etc.

Indigenous affairs is a federal cost which a separate west would have full responsibility for and on a per capita basis the costs for western Canada would go up given there are few reserves in downtown Toronto or Montreal. I am sure indigenous peoples would have the same if not more demands of service.

And even if Canada gave us our share of the military equipment, we would still need additional personal and basis as the prairie provinces are under represented in a defensive capacity.

Separation is comparable to divorce in that there are costs of the action, plus costs for both parties go up as things that were once shared now have to be duplicated. Yes, some costs may go down but others will go up and things we are not paying for now, like trade offices, will become real expenses

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Quit being ignorant and pretending that anyone is seriously thinking western Canada wants to be an independent country. The US is busy (re)negotiating trade deals the world over, on their terms, and at the expense of every other nation without that ability. Becoming an equal member of that union is the only viable option to continue to be an exporting entity.

And why does the left also persist on claiming that arbitrary provincial borders are immutable, written in stone and need to be respected forever when separation occurs? You are correct, large parts of BC, Ontario, Quebec, and the Maritimes are also resource rich, hard working, and disaffected with their current status within confederation. It will collapse like a house of cards as soon as the first region joins the US. Borders will not look at all like they do now.

[chuckChuck]

Quit being ignorant and pretending that anyone is seriously thinking western Canada wants to be an independent country. The US is busy (re)negotiating trade deals the world over, on their terms, and at the expense of every other nation without that ability. Becoming an equal member of that union is the only viable option to continue to be an exporting entity.

And why does the left also persist on claiming that arbitrary provincial borders are immutable, written in stone and need to be respected forever when separation occurs? You are correct, large parts of BC, Ontario, Quebec, and the Maritimes are also resource rich, hard working, and disaffected with their current status within confederation. It will collapse like a house of cards as soon as the first region joins the US. Borders will not look at all like they do now.

Do you really think you would get a better deal in the USA where there is also a lot of division on major issues? If so you are dreaming in technicolor. There is no appetite for joining the USA except amongst a very small group of right wing extremists who have very distorted views. Any political leader who suggest such a move will be quickly labelled a traitor. It is political suicide. But go ahead and discredit your views with this nonsense.

[dmlfarmer]

Quit being ignorant and pretending that anyone is seriously thinking western Canada wants to be an independent country. The US is busy (re)negotiating trade deals the world over, on their terms, and at the expense of every other nation without that ability. Becoming an equal member of that union is the only viable option to continue to be an exporting entity.

And why does the left also persist on claiming that arbitrary provincial borders are immutable, written in stone and need to be respected forever when separation occurs? You are correct, large parts of BC, Ontario, Quebec, and the Maritimes are also resource rich, hard working, and disaffected with their current status within confederation. It will collapse like a house of cards as soon as the first region joins the US. Borders will not look at all like they do now.

So why the wexit movement instead of a push for becoming the 51st state? Because it is likely less palatable to the general public than setting up own country. How many people are willing to give up universal health coverage. How many are willing to accept US level tuition fees to universities.

As far as your argument about Trump's trade deals, what are you talking about. He did renegotiate NAFTA with minor changes but it still has not been ratified by any of the 3 partners. He backed out of TPP and has zero luck negotiating with China other than getting crushing tariffs that "US consumers and businesses pay for. He has pulled out of European trade deals and so far nothing to replace them. He says he negotiated a trade deal with Japan, but nothing is signed much less ratified and we know how dependable his word is. I grant you he did sign a deal to sell cars to Korea. That is one signed trade deal in 3 years. Not a stellar record.


And why would we really want to join other than to get away from Trudeau? Harper could not get the Keystone pipeline and 3 years of Trump has not got it going. The environmental pressures are the same south of the border. Farm Bankrupcies in the US are at levels approaching 1980 now. US ag sales are down more than Canadian especially in wheat sales. The US is now the biggest producer of fuels in the world and we think they want more now. I know farmers like to produce more to earn less but the oil industry I hope is smarter than that.

Oh this forum continues to complain about government borrowing and our debt levels. Yet Trump has run close to a trillion dollar a year deficiet for the last 3 years. On a per capita basis it makes Trudeau look like a miser.

People think it will give them more power. Really, we are leaving a federation of 10 provinces and 36 million people to become one state in a republic of 51 with 10 times more population, most of them urban. And you think you are going to have more power. Give me a break!

[furrowtickler]

So why the wexit movement instead of a push for becoming the 51st state? Because it is likely less palatable to the general public than setting up own country. How many people are willing to give up universal health coverage. How many are willing to accept US level tuition fees to universities.

As far as your argument about Trump's trade deals, what are you talking about. He did renegotiate NAFTA with minor changes but it still has not been ratified by any of the 3 partners. He backed out of TPP and has zero luck negotiating with China other than getting crushing tariffs that "US consumers and businesses pay for. He has pulled out of European trade deals and so far nothing to replace them. He says he negotiated a trade deal with Japan, but nothing is signed much less ratified and we know how dependable his word is. I grant you he did sign a deal to sell cars to Korea. That is one signed trade deal in 3 years. Not a stellar record.


And why would we really want to join other than to get away from Trudeau? Harper could not get the Keystone pipeline and 3 years of Trump has not got it going. The environmental pressures are the same south of the border. Farm Bankrupcies in the US are at levels approaching 1980 now. US ag sales are down more than Canadian especially in wheat sales. The US is now the biggest producer of fuels in the world and we think they want more now. I know farmers like to produce more to earn less but the oil industry I hope is smarter than that.

Oh this forum continues to complain about government borrowing and our debt levels. Yet Trump has run close to a trillion dollar a year deficiet for the last 3 years. On a per capita basis it makes Trudeau look like a miser.

People think it will give them more power. Really, we are leaving a federation of 10 provinces and 36 million people to become one state in a republic of 51 with 10 times more population, most of them urban. And you think you are going to have more power. Give me a break!

This is a huge problem that helped create weexit ...
This needs to change or we will continue to be dictated to and have no real voice in western Canada

[chuckChuck]

Well said DML.

As I have pointed out Alberta is really well off with a high GDP per capita and high family incomes.

Many integrated oil companies are making tidy profits off low priced bitumen.

The total GDP is almost back to when the oil price fell out at the end of the Harper era. This not an indicator of an industry shut down.

There seems to be little vision in Alberta amongst some of how to invest in an economy that is more diverse and resilient against the wide swings in the price of commodities. They now think that high oil prices and booms are normal.

Its hard for provinces who don’t have such a wealth of resources to work with and lower incomes to see Alberta as the victim.

The leaders in Alberta and Saskatchewan are playing this division and victimization card to serve political purposes. Doug Ford was correct in his statement after meeting with Trudeau. “It’s just politics. “

It’s time for Moe and Kenney to show some real leadership!

[shtferbrains]

Your not clear on that one DML.

Was that a post to show how little we are loosing?

I lol at the military part.

I saw a guy in uniform about 8 years ago.

We could send a couple of ag pilots down to Arizona and get some surplus jets from the boneyard there.

Trump would probably give them to us.

They traditionally give them to friendly new nations.