Newfoundland Vote

[SASKFARMER]

Ah chuck explain some thing to me, we were supposed to be close to bankrupt but at the same time Manitoba under the ndp with piss all for natural resources etc was no where close with three times the debt. Yea right we were broke.


Biggest con job ever accomplished and I give it to roy it was a great slight of hand look here for the win.

[Guest]

oh shit chuck , those damn details again?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Here is something Chuck and I can agree about. No political party has a monopoly on poor fiscal management. About the only minor difference is if they have a spending problem, revenue problem or both. There is no such thing as a fiscal conservative government, only voters.

[jazz]

No party can keep their hands off the cookie jar, but here is the difference, spending can either be an investment in something tangible or it can go into the fire. At least after Devine I can physically go visit rafferty or terra fuels as its now known. Trudeau wasted a bunch of money into thin air that created nothing.

Spend it here, spend it on things that have some enduring value even if its not an instant money maker. I would rather see a boondoggle hydro dam than a donation to the UN.

Romanow had to cut services and save the province from financial ruin because of Devine's mismanagement. Conservatives still blame Romanow for cutting in rural Saskatchewan.
.

And lets end the myth that Romanow was some fiscal savior. He consolidated services to the cities to dilute the rural vote. Why else would the rural and Plains hospital get closed and Saskatoon get 2 new hospitals.

[bucket]

No party can keep their hands off the cookie jar, but here is the difference, spending can either be an investment in something tangible or it can go into the fire. At least after Devine I can physically go visit rafferty or terra fuels as its now known. Trudeau wasted a bunch of money into thin air that created nothing.

Spend it here, spend it on things that have some enduring value even if its not an instant money maker. I would rather see a boondoggle hydro dam than a donation to the UN.

Devine left a legacy that has funded the province very well....unfortunately stupid people thought they were smarter than Grant Devine...

He mortgaged the province on agriculture and the provinces resources....a pretty good bet and vision for Devine...many don't realize his contribution to the wealth of this province....and he didn't do it for money.....he did it for province and country...

Its too bad there are not more like him...

It worries me that the new federal environment minister apprenticed under Roy Romanow....if no one is concerned...they should be....

[chuckChuck]

https://esask.uregina.ca/entry/devine_grant_1944-.jsp

The Encyclopedia of Saskatchewan

Grant Devine was born July 5, 1944, in Regina, and was raised on a farm that his grandfather had homesteaded near Lake Valley, not far from Moose Jaw. After high school he enrolled at the University of Saskatchewan, where he earned a BSc in Agriculture. He pursued post-graduate studies and completed a PhD in Agricultural Economics at Ohio State University in 1976. He joined the faculty of the University of Saskatchewan, where he taught Agricultural Marketing and Consumer Economics.

Devine was drawn to politics at a time when the fortunes of the Saskatchewan Progressive Conservative Party were rising. Dick Collver, who was elected leader in 1973, argued that the Liberals were a spent force provincially and that the only way to dislodge the NDP government was to build an anti-socialist coalition around the Conservatives. His brand of right-wing Populism appealed to voters. In the 1978 election, the PCs displaced the Liberals as the official opposition.

The election marked Grant Devine's entry into electoral politics. He contested the constituency of Saskatoon Nutana and was soundly defeated. When Collver stepped down as leader, Devine put his name forward and cruised to victory at the November 1979 convention. He led the party into the provincial election called for April 26, 1982. It soon became evident that the NDP was vulnerable. Interest rates were at 18% and there was a feeling that Allan Blakeney's eleven-year-old government was out of touch with the people. On the first day of the campaign, Devine announced that he would eliminate the provincial tax on gasoline. This was followed by a commitment to guarantee home mortgage rates at 13.25%. The Conservatives rolled to victory, winning 54.1% of the popular vote and 55 out of 64 seats in the Legislature.

One of the first actions of the new administration was to organize an “Open for Business” conference in October 1982 to advertise the fact that the “socialist” era was over, and private investment and free enterprise were welcome in Saskatchewan. As an incentive to the oil industry, the government introduced a three-year royalty holiday for new wells and reduced royalties for existing wells. Drilling increased markedly, but at the sacrifice of a lower royalty revenue share of the value of production. The expansion of Crown corporations was curtailed, but there was no large-scale effort to sell them. A notable exception was the Land Bank, which the NDP had set up to facilitate the inter-generational transfer of land. Devine said the government should not be in the business of owning land, and he dismantled the Land Bank (see Agricultural Policy), replacing it with 8% loans to enable farmers to purchase their own land.

The government ran consecutive deficit budgets, accumulating a debt of over $1.5 billion its first four years in office. Sensing that he might lose the 1986 election, Devine opened the coffers, giving farmers production loans at 6% and homeowners $1,500 home-improvement matching grants. The strategy worked. Although he narrowly lost the popular vote to the NDP, Devine won a second term with 38 seats, against 25 for the NDP and one for the Liberals. In doing so, the PCs ran up a deficit of over $1.2 billion in 1986-87, a far cry from the deficit figure of $389 million that had been presented in the pre-election budget.

The fiscal crisis led to cutbacks in services, cancellation of programs, and firing of employees. The government launched a Privatization crusade, disposing of a wide array of Crown Corporations from the $15 million SaskMinerals to the potash Corporation, valued at well over $1 billion. When the government broke its promise not to sell utilities and placed the natural gas division of SaskPower on the block, the NDP brought the Legislature to a halt by letting the bells ring for seventeen days. The public sided with the NDP, and the government backed down from the sale.

Although he pledged to get government out of business, Devine gave loans, subsidies, guarantees and other incentives to private business. The results were impressive: two Heavy Oil Upgraders, a fertilizer plant, a paper mill, a pulp mill, and a bacon-processing plant. The Rafferty-Alameda Dams were built as a public works megaproject. However, the government was never able to control the debt it had incurred in its first term. By the end of the 1980s it was running a surplus on operating expenses excluding debt charges, but interest payments drove the province deeper into debt each year. By 1991-92 the accumulated debt was over $15 billion, and annual interest payments exceeded $500 million, the third-largest item in the budget after health and Education.

On the national scene, Devine reversed the old rule of Saskatchewan politics: pick a fight with Ottawa at election time. He was a staunch supporter of Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and gave wholehearted support to Mulroney's two main initiatives, the Meech Lake Accord and the Free Trade Agreement with the United States. Mulroney responded with deficiency payments to Saskatchewan farmers who were suffering Drought and record-low grain prices. Farmers were not the only beneficiaries: the billion-dollar assistance package announced days before the 1986 provincial election was a key element in Devine's victory.

Devine sought to undo the legacy of CCF/NDP socialism in Saskatchewan and build a pro-business, entrepreneurial culture. His government carried out a massive privatization program, reduced Social Assistance payments, and curbed the power of Labour unions, but private enterprise continued to rely heavily on government financial assistance. The greatest failure of the Devine years was the accumulation of an unprecedented debt, much of it attributable to tax cuts and unwise election spending. The government lost power in 1991, winning only 10 seats and 25% of the popular vote. After the election, a scandal came to light, resulting in the conviction of several former Conservative MLAs on fraud charges. Despite setbacks, Devine remained an eternal optimist holding fast to his free enterprise principles and his belief in the potential of Saskatchewan. In 2004, Devine attempted a political comeback, but lost in his effort to win a seat in Parliament in the federal election of that year.

[Guest]

my goodness , how will the encyclopedia of ottawa read on numbnuts?

[chuckChuck]

A little refresher on Grant Devine's legacy.

No wonder many farmers love Grant Devine. He and Mulroney bailed farmers out with several programs that put cash in our hands. I took the $25per acre producer loan at 6% and invested it in GIC s for 11% and paid it all back! It was a great handout.

Devine was a spender and in typical fashion used the spending to get reelected. He liked to pick winners and losers in the private sector and spent lots of taxpayers money propping up business.

He hardly qualifies as a "get government out of the way kind of Conservative". He was the exact opposite. He just about drove Saskatchewan into bankruptcy with the many lucrative spendy programs and tax cuts.

He wasn't a fiscal conservative or a good money manager.

[bucket]

Very few have the vision of Grant Devine....and the story goes he may have supported Mulroney but he wasn't taken for granted nor did he ever forget Saskatchewan's farmers...

He understood the foundation of this province....

And while you state you put the loan into GICs ...he helped you or your next generation keep farming...you are just too stupid to realize it....

The farm payments were peanuts compared to the investments in a fertilizer plant , upgraders, power plants etc that provided and still are good paying jobs....

You have to be retarded not to look back and see his vision from 30 years ago...and then look at the current set of politicians that can't see past their nose....

[chuckChuck]

Although I didn't agree with him on many things he at least paid more attention to agriculture than the most recent oil centric premiers we have!

The 1980s were a horrible time in farming. Thank goodness the cheques from Mulroney and Devine kept coming or otherwise even more farmers would have gone bankrupt!

[bucket]

Although I didn't agree with him on many things he at least paid more attention to agriculture than the most recent oil centric premiers we have!

The 1980s were a horrible time in farming. Thank goodness the cheques from Mulroney and Devine kept coming or otherwise even more farmers would have gone bankrupt!

Sad part is you would have eventually went there too if those handouts hadn't have come...between the drought of 88 and other countries support and export programs...Canada's agriculture industry would have been decimated without the handouts...

So while guys like you shit on Devine ....while others help put shit policies in the hands of politicians...every generation of farmers to date have received government help to keep the industry healthy...

Ignore it like the current set are and it will fail while they throw money at secondary or processing industries....without helping the primary producers...

[chuckChuck]

Bucket I did benefit from Devine intervention. That's why I mentioned it.

But lets lay to rest the myth that Devine was a fiscal Conservative or a good manager of the provinces finances.

He bought off the electorate just like other politicians of various stripes!

And he put Saskatchewan in serious debt and at serious risk of defaulting. Which is what many of the Liberal haters on this site are often complaining about when it comes to other politicians. LOL

[jazz]

There are drastic different visions for this province and they are still around today mostly by the city planners. They see sask as the next silicon valley or something even though there is no evidence that is even remotely possible. When was the last time you heard of 100 tech engineers being relocated or hired here? Not happening, hasnt happened, not going to happen.

Devine looked at it differently, he saw 3 or 4 bread and butter industries and went after beefing them up and going after value added. Right idea, some poor execution.

[chuckChuck]

The Saskatchewan Progressive Conservatives in the end were destroyed by their own greed and stupidity.

Many of the caucus were charged and convicted of fraud in one of the most notorious scandals in Saskatchewan history.

It happened on Devine's watch. Many of you seem to want to ignore this sad part of Saskatchewan's history and Grant Devine's legacy.

There is a reason why we have a Saskatchewan Party instead of a Conservative party. The old guard is still trying to forget!

[bucket]

Bucket I did benefit from Devine intervention. That's why I mentioned it.

But lets lay to rest the myth that Devine was a fiscal Conservative or a good manager of the provinces finances.

He bought off the electorate just like other politicians of various stripes!

And he put Saskatchewan in serious debt and at serious risk of defaulting. Which is what many of the Liberal haters on this site are often complaining about when it comes to other politicians. LOL

So you are saying the fertilizer plant and heavy oil upgraders and power plants for a growing population were bad investments?

What made them bad investments is selling them off for nickels....want to discuss who did that???

While some of his plans were off base...if you look the bigger picture his vision of Saskatchewan and what he accomplished for the future of Saskatchewan was impressive...

I don't think he bankrupted the province...I like to look at it as laying a solid foundation...no one sees the foundations of a house ...they see the pretty house....

Sadly to those that followed it meant a football stadium and a bunch of overpasses...thats the house the foundation is supporting ...pretty sad ....thats what will break the province..because they have no resale....at any price...