carbon tax

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Its quite ironic to watch farmers who regularly receive taxpayers support complain about socialism when they directly and indirectly benefit from subsidies to their farms which is a form of wealth redistribution!

Many farmers get their loans from the state owned Farm Credit Canada which provides direct competition to the private sector.

Most farmers get subsidized crop insurance from the state owned Saskatchewan Crop Insurance Corporation.

In Sask Party Saskatchewan, state owned utilities like Sask Power and Sasktel are widely supported and often deliver great service at lower costs.

The education and healthcare systems are more or less state run.

The public road system is state owned.

Many irrigation systems in Alberta and Saskatchewan were built and owned and/or subsidized by the state.

So let us know when you want to give up all the socialist benefits of state owned enterprises and supports and subsidies that make life and agriculture in Canada better.

And maybe you shouldn't be so quick to call everyone and everything you disagree with as socialist! Because you would have to add yourself to the list and it makes you a hypocrite! LOL

That is what is known as a deflection. We were asking Chuck how to explain the failure of the CO2 tax to motivate farmers to reduce their CO2 emissions, and in response, we get a tirade about subsidies. Obviously because that is much easier than admitting the failure of the CO2 tax, which he had been advocating so vehemently as a market based solution to a perceived problem.

And in response, I have never banked with FCC or AFSC, no subsidised crop insurance, and last I checked, we pay taxes to governments in exchange for providing basic services such as roads, health care, education, policing etc., how you construe that as a subsidy, is a mystery to me. Have you found a way to avoid paying taxes, yet still receive those services, allowing the rest of us to subsidise yourself?

[chuckChuck]

BC has had a carbon tax for many years and their economy is doing well and their emissions have not risen as much as they would have without a carbon tax. According to the experts. I am not sure what impact it is has had on agriculture in BC. Much of agriculture is exempt.

So are you in Agri Invest with a matching deposit from the government? If not why would you pass up this program?

Your taxes will cover some of the benefits you receive in the form of roads, healthcare, education and direct and indirect farm subsidies but not all.

But many farms don't have a lot of net income and so don't really pay a lot of tax on their farm income anyway.

So you can probably call yourself a socialist too!

[TASFarms]

BC has had a carbon tax for many years and their economy is doing well and their emissions have not risen as much as they would have without a carbon tax. According to the experts. I am not sure what impact it is has had on agriculture in BC. Much of agriculture is exempt.

So are you in Agri Invest with a matching deposit from the government? If not why would you pass up this program?

Your taxes will cover some of the benefits you receive in the form of roads, healthcare, education and direct and indirect farm subsidies but not all.

But many farms don't have a lot of net income and so don't really pay a lot of tax on their farm income anyway.

So you can probably call yourself a socialist too!

Bc charges carbon tax on all goods that ship through their province on rail. Pretty shitty if you ask me. Not much different than giving money to Quebec

[AlbertaFarmer5]

BC has had a carbon tax for many years and their economy is doing well and their emissions have not risen as much as they would have without a carbon tax.

So that is how we should measure the results of a policy, not based on the stated goals before implementation, but, instead judge it by how bad they failed relative to how badly they could have failed? The stated purpose was to reduce CO2 emissions, and now you are celebrating the fact that they still went up, and didn't completely destroy the economy in the process? Cognitive Dissonance.

Your taxes will cover some of the benefits you receive in the form of roads, healthcare, education and direct and indirect farm subsidies but not all.

But many farms don't have a lot of net income and so don't really pay a lot of tax on their farm income anyway.

I am sorry to disappoint you, but some of us farmers still have the financial management skills to be profitable( not spending capital on solar panels may be at least one factor to consider, if you are not in a profitable situation where you would not have the privilege of paying taxes), I assure you that the taxes our farm pays are subsidising many other citizens.

[chuckChuck]

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/soe/indicators/sustainability/ghg-emissions.html http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/soe/indicators/sustainability/ghg-emissions.html

"British Columbians are generating fewer greenhouse gases. Greenhouse gas emissions per person in British Columbia have declined over the past decade and stabilized in recent years. Greenhouse gas emissions per unit gross domestic product—a measure of the size of the economy—are on the decline in B.C."

Read the details and look at the graphs on the above website and it clearly shows that BCs carbon tax is working and the economy is growing!

So A5 you are wrong again my socialist friend!

And don't worry I pay lots of taxes too! And I am very happy to be farming and living in such a great country, unlike you who thinks the USA is better. You should move there if you think it is so great.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Excellent work on that find Chuck.

Now can you tell us, was this the stated goal of the CO2 tax policy, or is this a case of moving the goal posts to match the results? Because I could have swore that reducing total CO2 emissions was the original policy goal. Can you now find the documentation proving that reducing CO2 per capita, or per unit of economic output was the actual goal? Reminds me of your global warming arguments, where the goal posts keep shifting, from warming, to an all encompassing system, where the goal posts were broadened to include every possible scenario, even completely opposite of the original predictions.

You are aware that the USA has reduced its total CO2 output without any CO2 tax, how do you explain that?

And again with the deflection, what does the desire to be a part of a country that successfully embraced cheap, plentiful and clean natural gas as an energy source, a bottom up, grassroots, free market solution, have to do with the failure of the top down, enforcement, punitive tax model we applied here?

[chuckChuck]

Ask Preston Manning what the goal of a carbon tax is. Manning must be a socialist though!

Manning said it is a market driven approach and not top down because consumers can decide how to reduce emissions.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/chris-selley-preston-manning-has-answer-to-carbon-problem-but-clout-with-conservatives-seems-in-decline https://nationalpost.com/opinion/chris-selley-preston-manning-has-answer-to-carbon-problem-but-clout-with-conservatives-seems-in-decline

"Manning has argued tirelessly with Reform's spiritual heirs that simple, revenue-neutral carbon pricing is the most conservative approach available to fighting emissions"

But many Conservative leaders would rather play politics than do anything.

[fjlip]

Before any discussions on TAX, the basic SCAM must be addressed... Go ahead refute this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8455KEDitpU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8455KEDitpU

[TASFarms]

The B.C. Govt brags about how much money the carbon tax brought in for them and to spend on stupid things. they aren’t spending much of it on anything to do with the environment

[chuckChuck]

Before any discussions on TAX, the basic SCAM must be addressed... Go ahead refute this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8455KEDitpU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8455KEDitpU

What scam? You mean the science that shows the earth is round?