Is Farmland The Best Investment

[AlbertaFarmer5]

But back to your original question. We are almost certainly closer to a long term cyclical top, than a bottom right now. But currencies and politics will likely override that in the medium to long term, as the CAD drops, and separation becomes reality. Could be a lot of other investors trying to divest of their CAD into something with tangible value, and get a foothold in the west before it is too late.

[farmaholic]

So I too will stir the pot.

I have zero sympathy for land investors who are only looking for somewhere to park their money or ride the parabolic appreciation of Sask land, which in my opinion is over. So if a tennant of land owned by this type of owner is looking to reduce their inputs.....i don't care if the rent on this land is the first place they do it.

I also have very little sympathy for people who inherit the asset but chose not to farm in the first place, pay them less, I dont care.

The guy I do have some sympathy for is the guy who slogged through a career of farming and is using his land rental as retirement income....that may be his only "pension".

Here is another one I can't wrap my head around. 7 quarters sell beside me for about 2.1 million. Investor puts down a million and mortgages the rest.....1.1 million mortgage(1.1 million @ 5% for 20 years annual payments)....some quick loan calculator number crunching and this guy only needs about $80/acre rent from the tennant to effectively be making his mortgage payment!!!! How stupid. Farmers are tripping over each other AND themelves to farm this stuff! WHY?

[SASKFARMER]

The investor it is all fine till the Tennant says **** you and quits paying the high rent. But it is also the time other idiots don't move in and try to farm.

We have land beside me that maybe I should have bought years ago. It was high and the begining of the land climb.

The first renter paid really good compared to others around. The guy from China was happy. Yea he has a home in Vancouver but phone him and he is back in China all the time.

Got greedy and this summer the first guy was done and rent went up 20 an acre and the new guy will farm next year.

Funny the new guy might be the last hurrah for the Chinese guy. I don't think he'll make it. The first renter had deep pockets the second HAHAHAAHHA no.

Now if Errol is correct and Cash is king. So will be paid for the land. Even if it does like the 80s and drop from 182,000 to 65000. Yes, it did do that. So 308000 down to 110000 is still better than a stock thats worth a 1000 down to a penny stock.

Cash is king but Canadian is not going to be worth anything more than toilet paper.

[Sheepwheat]

So I too will stir the pot.

I have zero sympathy for land investors who are only looking for somewhere to park their money or ride the parabolic appreciation of Sask land, which in my opinion is over. So if a tennant of land owned by this type of owner is looking to reduce their inputs.....i don't care if the rent on this land is the first place they do it.

I also have very little sympathy for people who inherit the asset but chose not to farm in the first place, pay them less, I dont care.

The guy I do have some sympathy for is the guy who slogged through a career of farming and is using his land rental as retirement income....that may be his only "pension".

Here is another one I can't wrap my head around. 7 quarters sell beside me for about 2.1 million. Investor puts down a million and mortgages the rest.....1.1 million mortgage(1.1 million @ 5% for 20 years annual payments)....some quick loan calculator number crunching and this guy only needs about $80/acre rent from the tennant to effectively be making his mortgage payment!!!! How stupid. Farmers are tripping over each other AND themelves to farm this stuff! WHY?

Friend of mine was over last night. Made an assessment on 400 acres that sold across the road from him. Came up with payments of 118 an acre. He shakes his head. I shudder.

Farmers are our own worst enemy.

[burnt]

Plagued by a troubling question for the last year or so. I've asked numerous farmers from various age groups, younger chaps to those retired:

"Do you think we will see a time when land will be a liability rather than an asset?"

Usually a moment of silence.

Then, the younger guys laugh and regard the Q as if it's a joke.

Middle age chaps shrug and get back to work.

The oldest guys look off into the distance for a bit and then look back with a look that says more than their words. They understand.

Then I read Garth Turner -

https://www.greaterfool.ca/2019/12/11/the-big-proboscis/#comments https://www.greaterfool.ca/2019/12/11/the-big-proboscis/#comments

When the Marxists take over, they don't care if they take your cash, your cow or your land.

It's all the same to them.

The wealthy will be "punished" before too long, I'm quite certain.

And we farmers/ranchers are the wealthy.

[farmaholic]

Burnt,

I think if the land is owned by the guy farming it, it will always be considered an asset....

The guy who owns it but doesn't farm it might someday find himself "owning a liability".

[jazz]

And we farmers/ranchers are the wealthy.

Thank god for the homestead act.

[burnt]

Burnt,

I think if the land is owned by the guy farming it, it will always be considered an asset....

The guy who owns it but doesn't farm it might someday find himself "owning a liability".

I really want to agree with you. (You know, great minds, good friends and all .... )

But history tells me that I should be very cautious about doing that.

[burnt]

Thank god for the homestead act.

I don't know what the homestead act is.

Because we have known nothing but prosperity, law and order in all of our living years, we expect that that is the norm and will continue.

Therefore, I don't think any of us can fathom what a corrupt government is capable of visiting on its people.

What we see on the news only happens on the other side of the world, you know, in countries like China or North Korea, those "basic dictatorships" that our Incompetent in Chief said he admires for their ability to get things done....

[farmaholic]

Ok then, the cycles of high and low land appreciation are long enough that investment timing could very well determine if you bought an asset or liability?

[jazz]

I don't know what the homestead act is.

That is the most important piece of legislation ever enacted for rural folks.

Nobody, not the govt, bank, UN, nobody can take that home quarter from you and your immediate family.

The Homestead Act predates the indian treaties. Even they cant fk with that 160 acres including the mineral rights. If the trespass laws can be beefed up, every farmer basically a protected compound.

In Europe, farmers have been regulated and taxed to death so much that some said fk it and just live in their yard now and produce just enough to take care of themselves. Get revenue from bogus green projects like wind and biomass, let some foreign BTO run themselves ragged trying to grow food for the world.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Excellent question Burnt.

My wife's maternal grandparents were considered "Kulaks" in Russia at the time of the revolution. Land and wealth were definitely a liability at that time. The act of owning land cost most owners their lives. Her family barely escaped with their lives. I need to ask how they managed to rejoin society in the end, I know they had to run away and go into hiding for a long time. Her father's people not much different.

There are many among us who would love nothing more than to repeat that horrendous failed experiment all over again here in Canada.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Friend of mine was over last night. Made an assessment on 400 acres that sold across the road from him. Came up with payments of 118 an acre. He shakes his head. I shudder.

Farmers are our own worst enemy.

How does that compare to rents in the area? I hear of rents not far east of here that are very close to that price already. And the renters have nothing to show for it in the end.

Personally, I'll pay up to 2.5 times rent to eventually own the asset, and potentially benefit from appreciation or development, or lease revenue.

[burnt]

...The act of owning land cost most owners their lives...

Seems like that would put one hella dent in the asset side of the ledger.

We're not just taking about laws and land values here.

Your wife and her parents would likely have an answer to the question. Not many old-timers left who could describe what happened back there.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Given the direction we are headed, not hard to envision a time when we have been regulated out of being able to farm the land in this country, but still responsible for maintaining it. Paying property taxes, restoring habitat, controlling noxious weeds, liability for trespassers.

Look at how many are already calculating the costs to abandon and restore all oil and gas facilities and infrastructure, and who they expect to pay for it. As Jazz said in another thread, shutting down oil and gas is just the beginning.