Cgc samples

[Guest]

anyone else send in same samples a month apart ?
first ones both #2, same one a month later #3 and CF, falling numbers the same ?
do you think maybe the families scolded them for grading grain what it is ?
or does it just show how inconsistent these samples are?

[farmaholic]

Until they move away from any visual or subjective grading, expect the variables.

Machine tested:
Protien
Test weight
Moisture
Falling number on weathered wheat.

Anything having to be physically picked and counted is subjective.
Anything picked, obvious(like ergot) or subjective(midge or fusarium or severe sprout damage) were tolerances are extremely low can down grade by the bad "luck" of the grab(taken sample).

Severe sprout tolerances, #1 --- .1%, #2 --- .2%, #3 ---.3%
Fusarium tolerances, #1 ---.3%, #2 --- .8%, #3 ---1.5%

Doesn't take much to move something into a lower grade.

[farmaholic]

I only sent in one sample of wheat into CGC. It graded the same as most line companies, 360+ falling number, #2 due to mildew, 13.4 px. I think G3 gave me a 1, but all the parameters where very close between everyone, except viterra. Viterra graded it as a borderline feed with high Fusarium, 13 px, high mildew and 280 falling number. How does every other line company basically grade it similar except ****ing viterra. It's always a grade or two worse at that shit hole. It seems viterras grading is getting worse year after year. Used to get good grades there, now they are always worse than everyone else. Not worth taking them a sample anymore.

I have luck with them, some others not so much. They lead in prices here most of the time.

When all the "Old Guards" change/retire and no one is left there that I developed relationships with over my farming career....is that a signal for me to quit too?

[bucket]

[ATTACH]5360[/ATTACH]

I have luck with them, some others not so much. They lead in prices here most of the time.

When all the "Old Guards" change/retire and no one is left there that I developed relationships with over my farming career....is that a signal for me to quit too?

Nope but you better have good relations with another buyer at another grainco just in case

[walterm]

anyone else send in same samples a month apart ?
first ones both #2, same one a month later #3 and CF, falling numbers the same ?
do you think maybe the families scolded them for grading grain what it is ?
or does it just show how inconsistent these samples are?

What was the degrading factor in both cases? Was the sample out of the same pail divided down to maintain the same representative sample? These are all factors that can change grades. Not sure if it is stll the same but submitted samples used to be kept for 1 month and farmers could ask for reinspection you could maybe have samples looked at again.

Even if we went to more scientific grading you can still have variance in results.

[fjlip]

sent 5 wheat samples to CGC, all over >360 FN, #2, mildew. Pioneer says 297 FN, Viterra 333 FN, on same average sample pail, took wheat without question. Pioneer claims will send recheck after delivery to base payment on! If FN is so variable it's worth SHIT! CGC says it's +or- 30 error.
Excellent relationship with both, they feel sorry for an OLDER guy sometimes...last year we discussed moisture blending prior to delivery and were told how to do it. Canola was averaged all dry.

[blackpowder]

Too early in the fall and that years standard sample for grade isn't established yet.
The one that is selected to represent that grade and be the visual comparator for the year.
Used to be anyway. One time mine was selected as a standard and I shipped them a big canvas sack.

[farmaholic]

If the variability in mechanical testing is so much that it too easily moves grain into different grades then the tolerances between those grades need to be wider!

With some grade determinant tolerances being so low, grade variability will be greater, even in properly divided samples. whether those are subjective or objective tests.

Just my uneducated opinion.

[Guest]

What was the degrading factor in both cases? Was the sample out of the same pail divided down to maintain the same representative sample? These are all factors that can change grades. Not sure if it is stll the same but submitted samples used to be kept for 1 month and farmers could ask for reinspection you could maybe have samples looked at again.

Even if we went to more scientific grading you can still have variance in results.

severe sprouts second time
very good samples , full pail on a 5000 bu bin , mixed well , same sample a month apart

[farmaholic]

severe sprouts second time
very good samples , full pail on a 5000 bu bin , mixed well , same sample a month apart

Look at the severe sprout tolerances I posted.

0.3% allowed in a three...less than a third of one percent.

[Guest]

Look at the severe sprout tolerances I posted.

0.3% allowed in a three...less than a third of one percent.

or 3 kernels in a thousand

[walterm]

or 3 kernels in a thousand

What is the Falling Number of those same specs on average? Sev sptd in very small amounts will cause very low falling number. Might be even lower than price spread using falling number scale over grade spread. I really don't know if there is spec's on that comparison of average grade by sptd and sev sptd compared to FN.

[Guest]

What is the Falling Number of those same specs on average? Sev sptd in very small amounts will cause very low falling number. Might be even lower than price spread using falling number scale over grade spread. I really don't know if there is spec's on that comparison of average grade by sptd and sev sptd compared to FN.

One is 300 , one is 295

[farmaholic]

What is the Falling Number of those same specs on average? Sev sptd in very small amounts will cause very low falling number. Might be even lower than price spread using falling number scale over grade spread. I really don't know if there is spec's on that comparison of average grade by sptd and sev sptd compared to FN.

In my opinion, unless the sprouting is a bit of an anomaly in the feild....if you swathed and tires pushed it to the ground. Or the standing crop is down so bad that some heads are touching the ground , and those spots are severly sprouted....you would think the rest of the feild average could easily absorb those spots.

But if weather conditions were so bad for so long that caused "some" severe sprouting....you could assume there is a degree of sprouting that has taken part in the rest of the feild.....therefore more damage may be present than "meets the eye".

Enter the evil falling number test.

[walterm]

In my opinion, unless the sprouting is a bit of an anomaly in the feild....if you swathed and tires pushed it to the ground. Or the standing crop is down so bad that some heads are touching the ground , and those spots are severly sprouted....you would think the rest of the feild average could easily absorb those spots.

But if weather conditions were so bad for so long that caused "some" severe sprouting....you could assume there is a degree of sprouting that has taken part in the rest of the feild.....therefore more damage may be present than "meets the eye".

Enter the evil falling number test.

Yes it s the premature sprouting that you can't easily see that is concerning. FN will be decreased but no visual signs. Next issue is on a 7 gram sample out of a truck or bin full unless you get a truely representative sample and maintain representation throughout whole test procedure you may by chance get say 3 kernels into test sample instead of 2 and skew true results. That begs the question of is a remote probe sample the way your elevator takes the sample, the way he divides that sample and divides it again to get the 7 grams for testing accurate enough that you will put your income or at least part of it on the line?