Electric car sales

[Hamloc]

On CBC:"Sales of electric vehicles plummet in Ontario now the the province has cancelled rebate." Interesting article. What caught my eye was that electric cars cost $10000 to $13000 more yet according to the vehicle manufacturing association they are losing $10000 per car when they sell them. So governments are subsidizing them so we will buy them, at the same time they will lose all the fuel taxes to fund roads. Going to have to implement something like a registration tax on electric vehicles to fix the hole in their budgets. Sure makes a lot of sense(cents) and manufacturers can't make any money either, fml!!

[ajl]

It is worse than that. You will also get to pay for grid upgrades for the recharging infrastructure. Electric cars are a total disaster.

[macdon02]

Oh it'll most likely be an odometer reading when you license the vehicle. Tax per km.

[GDR]

Oh it'll most likely be an odometer reading when you license the vehicle. Tax per km.

That actually would make sense for all road tax. But I'd bet it becomes all automated when your car reports on it's own.

[fjlip]

Make work project, someone is raking in BILLIONS, Create demand then charge the shit out of consumers. Thousands of MONSTROUS wind turbines are required that are f"ing complicated, all will wear out, EXPENSIVE maintenance 200' in the air, some fall to pieces/burn. Crazy big complicated stuff, costing BILLIONS $, plus copper cables, millions of miles of cables to connect them all. Yup wind is sure easy, simple, FREE electricity. If you have a few hours watch the videos, OMG! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nemy4TD4I3A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nemy4TD4I3A

[AlbertaFarmer5]

The same trend is happening all over as subsidies dry up. It turns out that people only like virtue signalling when they can do it with other peoples money, but draw the line on using their own.

It is unfortunate that they cannot yet stand on their own for the average commuter, especially in our climate and sparsely populated country, since their timing would be excellent for solving a problem that is prevalent all over North America now. We have such a glut of natural gas that we are flaring it off, or paying to get rid of it, production of liquids is constrained by what to do with the gas byproducts. CNG is not very practical for passenger sized vehicles, and the infrastructure not yet there, but burning literally free natural gas in conventional generating stations, to power electric cars actually makes sense. Makes much more sense to use more nat gas at home, and export more liquids that wouldn't be needed for transportation any more, than to compress natural gas and try to export that.

Too bad these causes get corrupted and ruined by the anti science alarmists, when sometimes there really is something useful about them.

[chuckChuck]

https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2019#key-findings https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2019#key-findings

From the International Energy Agency

Global EV Outlook 2019

Electric car deployment has been growing rapidly over the past ten years, with the global stock of electric passenger cars passing 5 million in 2018, an increase of 63% from the previous year. Around 45% of electric cars on the road in 2018 were in China – a total of 2.3 million – compared to 39% in 2017. In comparison, Europe accounted for 24% of the global fleet, and the United States 22%.

The global electric car fleet exceeded 5.1 million in 2018, up by 2 million since 2017, almost doubling the unprecedented amount of new registrations in 2017. The People’s Republic of China (hereafter “China”) remained the world’s largest electric car market with nearly 1.1 million electric cars sold in 2018 and, with 2.3 million units, it accounted for almost half of the global electric car stock. Europe followed with 1.2 million electric cars and the United States with 1.1 million on the road by the end of 2018 and market growth of 385 000 and 361 000 electric cars from the previous year (Figure 1). Norway remained the global leader in terms of electric car market share at 46% of its new electric car sales in 2018, more than double the second-largest market share in Iceland at 17% and six-times higher than the third-highest Sweden at 8%.

Canada outlined a vision for future EV uptake accompanied by very ambitious policies in some provinces, such as the zero-emissions vehicles (ZEVs) mandate in Quebec (similar to one in California). British Columbia announced legislation for the most stringent ZEV mandate worldwide: 30% ZEV sales by 2030 and 100% by 2040. This places Canada in a similar framework as the ten states in the United States that have implemented a ZEV mandate.

Recent technology progress for battery storage in general has been boosted by high demand for batteries in consumer electronics. Structural elements indicate not only that continued cost reductions are likely, but that they are strongly linked to developments underway in the automotive sector, i.e. changes in battery characteristics (chemistry, energy density and size of the battery packs) and the scale of manufacturing plants. It is expected that by 2025 batteries will increasingly use cathode chemistries that are less dependent on cobalt, such as NMC 8111, NMC 622 or NMC 532 cathodes in the NMC family or advanced NCA batteries. This will lead to an increase in energy density and a decrease of battery costs, in combination with other developments (e.g. the availability of silicon-graphite chemistries for anode technology). Today most battery production is in plants that range from 3 to 8 gigawatt-hours per year (GWh/year) though three plants with over 20 GWh/year capacity are already in operation and five more are expected by 2023.

Growing momentum on the policy front is also emerging in other countries. Key examples include Chile, which has one of the largest electric bus fleets in the world after China. Chile’s aim is to electrify 100% of its public transport by 2040 and 40% of private transport by 2050. New Zealand also has high ambitions and has adopted a transition to a net-zero emissions economy by 2050. Both New Zealand and Chile joined the Electric Vehicles Initiative (EVI) in 2018.

[chuckChuck]

I can't wait to see the new F150 all electric that pulled over a million pounds on rail as a protype. We might see it as early as 2021!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXFHgoon7lg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXFHgoon7lg

From the you tube comments:

Math is fun! This video shows the importance of rolling resistance coefficients. Ford chose a railway for a reason, CRR of ~0.0015, meaning they only needed a 1,875 lb-force from the truck in order to move the train. If they towed same weight on road tires, which have CRR 10x that of railways (~0.015) it would have taken an 18,750 lb force to move. Far more than the F150 weighs, so it would have sat still. Railway gives the illusion of impossible, when in reality it’s what makes it possible. Neat!
Edit: Lots of comments about the tow strap, it actually doesn't need to be rated all that high (see math above, 2,000 lbs will do).

[chuckChuck]

EVs are going to be expensive to buy until costs come down but maintenance costs will be very low and charged by solar PV systems, the cost of energy will be low and cleaner.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Chuck, why post an out of date article when up to date information is available showing a worldwide decline in EV's lately. led by China showing a 32% year over year collapse already due to (you'll never guess) removal of subsidies...

Why not do your own independent research, instead of repeating the same old propaganda, and end up looking like a fool all over again?

[Guest]

I can't wait to see the new F150 all electric that pulled over a million pounds on rail as a protype. We might see it as early as 2021!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXFHgoon7lg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXFHgoon7lg

From the you tube comments:

Math is fun! This video shows the importance of rolling resistance coefficients. Ford chose a railway for a reason, CRR of ~0.0015, meaning they only needed a 1,875 lb-force from the truck in order to move the train. If they towed same weight on road tires, which have CRR 10x that of railways (~0.015) it would have taken an 18,750 lb force to move. Far more than the F150 weighs, so it would have sat still. Railway gives the illusion of impossible, when in reality it’s what makes it possible. Neat!
Edit: Lots of comments about the tow strap, it actually doesn't need to be rated all that high (see math above, 2,000 lbs will do).

According to the youtube comments , govts that allowed rail lines to be tore up sure are simple

[Hamloc]

EVs are going to be expensive to buy until costs come down but maintenance costs will be very low and charged by solar PV systems, the cost of energy will be low and cleaner.

So let me get this straight, I usually run to town during the day so I would charge the vehicle at night, no sunlight on my solar panel at night, hmmm. Oh right batteries are getting cheaper. So I look for a price on a Tesla powerwall 2. Can't find a price online in Canada, U.S. price is $6700USD. Interesting enough when the powerwall 2 first came out it was $5500 USD. The price increased in April 2018. Goes against your narrative about how renewables keep getting cheaper.

Anyway you always talk about how solar with battery back up is getting cheaper. My farms average consumption per day in the winter time is 70 kwh per day. I remember reading about designing an off the grid system and it said you should have 3 days worth of storage. Well I would need 10 Tesla powerwalls just to store enough electricity for one day(each powerwall yields 7 kwh per charge) at roughly $9000 CAD a piece, and that doesn't include hook up and related hardware. Now of course Chuck you will tell me it is cheaper for a grid tie installation but remember you are also constantly telling us that solar with battery back up is the cheapest form of electrical generation, I call bullshit!!!!

[AlbertaFarmer5]

EVs are going to be expensive to buy until costs come down but maintenance costs will be very low and charged by solar PV systems, the cost of energy will be low and cleaner.

No they are not, total world electricity generation by solar is around 2%. EV's are, and will be powered by fossil fuels. A non solution, to a non problem. And as long as our grid costs are being sabotaged by those irrelevant but vastly more expensive unreliable, electric cars won't even be cheaper than ICE to operate, which they should be vastly cheaper due to free natural gas.

[chuckChuck]

Chuck, why post an out of date article when up to date information is available showing a worldwide decline in EV's lately. led by China showing a 32% year over year collapse already due to (you'll never guess) removal of subsidies...

Why not do your own independent research, instead of repeating the same old propaganda, and end up looking like a fool all over again?

IEA May 2019. That report is only 6 months old. Although the data is probably out of date now. But the trends are firmly established.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

So let me get this straight, I usually run to town during the day so I would charge the vehicle at night, no sunlight on my solar panel at night, hmmm. Oh right batteries are getting cheaper. So I look for a price on a Tesla powerwall 2. Can't find a price online in Canada, U.S. price is $6700USD. Interesting enough when the powerwall 2 first came out it was $5500 USD. The price increased in April 2018. Goes against your narrative about how renewables keep getting cheaper.

Anyway you always talk about how solar with battery back up is getting cheaper. My farms average consumption per day in the winter time is 70 kwh per day. I remember reading about designing an off the grid system and it said you should have 3 days worth of storage. Well I would need 10 Tesla powerwalls just to store enough electricity for one day(each powerwall yields 7 kwh per charge) at roughly $9000 CAD a piece, and that doesn't include hook up and related hardware. Now of course Chuck you will tell me it is cheaper for a grid tie installation but remember you are also constantly telling us that solar with battery back up is the cheapest form of electrical generation, I call bullshit!!!!

Well said, and remember the real world application of solar I posted a while back, where they concluded that they needed 3 MONTHS of storage to make it reliable. Do the math on how many powerwalls that requires, if you want to keep your electric vehicle charged all winter.