Wind Turbines

[malleefarmer]

Interesting with all the govt subsidies and help , taxpayers and ECB are gonna bail them out. Investors apparently left with nothing.

I’m becoming pro solar but not pro wind power but both have to stand alone sometime soon


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-senvion-m-a-siemens-gamesa-r-idUSKBN1W10KR https://www.reuters.com/article/us-senvion-m-a-siemens-gamesa-r-idUSKBN1W10KR

[grassfarmer]

Times are changing - the wind farms in the UK are becoming profitable without the subsidies. Some more offshore ones coming on line that can produce power cheaper than coal or nuclear. Huge turbines seem to be the most efficient and profitable.

[fjlip]

Total waste of time, energy, materials, the costs PLUS ongoing wear and tear will NEVER pay for itself! Way too massive, crazy complex, huge size, insane amount of cables required. Concrete/steel/copper, it will never pay for itself.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/energy/windpower/9770837/Wind-farm-turbines-wear-sooner-than-expected-says-study.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/energy/windpower/9770837/Wind-farm-turbines-wear-sooner-than-expected-says-study.html

[TSIPP]

Maleefarmer, I’m on the other side of the fence the new local wind turbines are supposed to provide
4.2 megawatts or a little more than 5600 horsepower at a cost of 3.5 cents a kilowatt. Each turbine costs a little more than 6 million.

As far as I know solars costing close to 10 cents a kilowatt and most of Canada doesn’t get enough sunshine for the panels for break even without a government subsidize.

[TSIPP]

This probably isn’t a great example but making 5600 horsepower with a Diesel engine is going run around 1900 dollars worth of fuel In an hour and in less than half a year will cost over 6 million, I’m not really sure if the wind turbine is the way to go but the extra jobs and tax Money is pretty good for the local economy.

[malleefarmer]

No brainer I guess solar for me extra sun wind for you guys
Apparently some issues with solar last week even to hot for solar panels think it was super cheap Chinese systems that failed

Just cause solar is way foward in Australia don’t mean it is everywere

[malleefarmer]

Brother in law works in coal he’s a project planner for want of better word works in Australia South Africa Papuan new ginger and think been to South America he knows energy costs down to last cent.

He’s pro nuclear but coal wind solar gas all has a place in big picture

Guess it’s his line of work but he says coal will always be needed for steel and cement manufacturing even if it’s scaled back in the electricity stakes

Looking foward to his wisdom at xmas

[chuckChuck]

From Bloomberg New Energy Outlook 2019

https://about.bnef.com/new-energy-outlook/#toc-download https://about.bnef.com/new-energy-outlook/#toc-download

1. Wind and solar make up almost 50% of world electricity in 2050 – “50 by 50” – and help put the power sector on track for 2 degrees to at least 2030.

2. A 12TW expansion of generating capacity requires about $13.3 trillion of new investment between now and 2050 – 77% of which goes to renewables.

3. Europe decarbonizes furthest, fastest. Coal-heavy China and gas-heavy U.S. play catch-up.

4. Wind and solar are now cheapest across more than two-thirds of the world. By 2030 they undercut commissioned coal and gas almost everywhere.

5. Consumer energy decisions such as rooftop solar and behind-the-meter batteries help shape an increasingly decentralized grid the world over.

6. Batteries, gas peakers and dynamic demand help wind and solar reach more than 80% penetration in some markets.

7. Coal continues to grow in Asia, but collapses everywhere else and peaks globally in 2026.

8. Gas-fired power grows just 0.6% per year to 2050, supplying system back-up and flexibility rather than bulk electricity in most markets.

9. Making heat and transport electric lowers emissions. The challenge is scale.

10. To keep an electrified energy sector on a 2-degree trajectory, we will need to deploy additional zero-carbon technologies that are dispatchable and economic running at low capacity factors, or technology that can capture and sequester emissions at scale.

[chuckChuck]

Keep in mind that this is a global forecast from Bloomberg and every country region will have its own mix of electricity sources.

[chuckChuck]

From the International Energy Agency World Energy Outlook 2019
https://www.iea.org/reports/world-energy-outlook-2019 https://www.iea.org/reports/world-energy-outlook-2019

Electricity use grows at more than double the pace of overall energy demand in the Stated Policies Scenario, confirming its place at the heart of modern economies. Growth in electricity use in the Stated Policies Scenario is led by industrial motors (notably in China), followed by household appliances, cooling and electric vehicles. In the Sustainable Development Scenario, electricity is one of the few energy sources that sees growing consumption in 2040 – mainly due to electric vehicles – alongside the direct use of renewables, and hydrogen. The share of electricity in final consumption, less than half that of oil today, overtakes oil by 2040.

The expansion of generation from wind and solar PV helps renewables overtake coal in the power generation mix in the mid-2020s. By 2040, low-carbon sources provide more than half of total electricity generation. Wind and solar PV are the star performers, but hydropower (15% of total generation in 2040) and nuclear (8%) retain major shares.



The speed at which battery costs decline is a critical variable for power markets as well as for electric cars. India is the largest overall source of energy demand growth in this year’s Outlook, and we examine how a cost-effective combination of cheaper battery storage and solar PV could reshape the evolution of India’s power mix in the coming decades. Battery storage is well suited to provide the short-term flexibility that India needs, allowing a lunchtime peak in solar PV supply to meet an early evening peak in demand. In the Stated Policies Scenario, a major reduction in battery costs means that some 120 GW of storage are installed by 2040.

We also examine the possibility that battery costs could decline even faster – an extra 40% by 2040 – because of greater industrial economies of scale or a breakthrough in battery chemistry, for example. In this case, combined solar and battery storage plants would be a very compelling economic and environmental proposition, reducing sharply India’s projected investment in new coal-fired power plants.

[Hamloc]

Keep in mind that this is a global forecast from Bloomberg and every country region will have its own mix of electricity sources.

So Chuck still waiting to hear your justification for the uneven application of carbon taxes across Canada even though our federal government says we are in a climate emergency. Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, PEI, in these provinces home heating fuel is not subject to a carbon tax. In Nova Scotia and PEI much lower carbon tax on gasoline. In NewBrunswick basically no carbon tax($1 per tonne) on coal for electricity generation. In Quebec their cap and trade program equates to $18 a tonne with no clear path to it rising $10 a tonne per year! So why the special deals for Fed friendly provinces?

[Wheatking]

From the International Energy Agency World Energy Outlook 2019
https://www.iea.org/reports/world-energy-outlook-2019 https://www.iea.org/reports/world-energy-outlook-2019

Electricity use grows at more than double the pace of overall energy demand in the Stated Policies Scenario, confirming its place at the heart of modern economies. Growth in electricity use in the Stated Policies Scenario is led by industrial motors (notably in China), followed by household appliances, cooling and electric vehicles. In the Sustainable Development Scenario, electricity is one of the few energy sources that sees growing consumption in 2040 – mainly due to electric vehicles – alongside the direct use of renewables, and hydrogen. The share of electricity in final consumption, less than half that of oil today, overtakes oil by 2040.

The expansion of generation from wind and solar PV helps renewables overtake coal in the power generation mix in the mid-2020s. By 2040, low-carbon sources provide more than half of total electricity generation. Wind and solar PV are the star performers, but hydropower (15% of total generation in 2040) and nuclear (8%) retain major shares.



The speed at which battery costs decline is a critical variable for power markets as well as for electric cars. India is the largest overall source of energy demand growth in this year’s Outlook, and we examine how a cost-effective combination of cheaper battery storage and solar PV could reshape the evolution of India’s power mix in the coming decades. Battery storage is well suited to provide the short-term flexibility that India needs, allowing a lunchtime peak in solar PV supply to meet an early evening peak in demand. In the Stated Policies Scenario, a major reduction in battery costs means that some 120 GW of storage are installed by 2040.

We also examine the possibility that battery costs could decline even faster – an extra 40% by 2040 – because of greater industrial economies of scale or a breakthrough in battery chemistry, for example. In this case, combined solar and battery storage plants would be a very compelling economic and environmental proposition, reducing sharply India’s projected investment in new coal-fired power plants.

So if costs are supposedly going to come down so much, why force development now when it's not viable economically. When the costs come down to make it justifiable development will happen on its own without wasting our resources and money now on something that will be obsolete in a few years due to supposed technological development.

Give the renewable industries money for technological development, but quit wasting money on projects that make no economic sense, other than appeasing the Greenpeace activists, and environment wackos who have no common sense.

[furrowtickler]

I wonder who will cover the orphaned turbines in the near future ?
https://www.energycentral.com/news/retiring-worn-out-wind-turbines-could-cost-billions-nobody-has

[chuckChuck]

The Federal government gave each province the option of setting up their plan to suit their unique circumstances as long as it met the federal minimum . Some chose not to do anything and had the federal plan imposed. That is why we have a patchwork of different plans.

Alberta and Saskatchewan both have carbon taxes on large emitters. Even though they say the don't support carbon taxes. Go figure?

Not one province is opposed to reducing carbon emissions. They all have a plan of some sort.

[bucket]

I wonder who will cover the orphaned turbines in the near future ?
https://www.energycentral.com/news/retiring-worn-out-wind-turbines-could-cost-billions-nobody-has

Greta and her ilk can pay those costs....and I am happy they are getting those costs to pay....it will be a wake up call to their brainwashing...


My guess is coal comes back ....If Saskpower had not been established the wind power would have developed long ago in individual yards but I think people seen value in being hooked to the grid along with natural gas in the 80s....

But to each their own...