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An olive branch to Chuck. Let's collaborate on proving climate change on the prairie

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    An olive branch to Chuck. Let's collaborate on proving climate change on the prairie

    Since neither of us is making any progress convincing the other about global warming, lets find some common ground and work together on something that could be of mutual benefit.

    You've suggested multiple times that global warming is causing the jet stream to stall and cause our weather patterns to get stuck in place. And you are not alone, it is commonly repeated by others and in the media. And there is certainly some rationale behind the theory, as the temperature differential between higher latitudes and lower latitudes decreases. But I am unable to find any research to prove or disprove that it is having a measurable effect on the ground in the real world where we have to make a living.

    If it is, this is information that all of us can use to plan accordingly. If we know that the weather patterns we grew up with would stick around for average of 10 days, and now it is average of 30 days ( for random example), we could adjust our plans to fit around that schedule. Instead of waiting for dry weather to return to seed/spray/hay/harvest/ or do warm weather jobs in winter time, like we could have done in the past, we could persevere and do it the hard way, knowing that the odds are not in our favour for the pattern to change in time. Could likely even use it to predict potential yields, based on the prevailing weather pattern as of a certain date, and apply inputs accordingly. And Chuck, you can use this information to sell the proposal that global warming is having an effect, detrimental or otherwise on western Canadian farmers, right now, in the present day, not potentially in the future, and back it up with data right from our own back yard. I will leave it up to you to prove if correlation implies causation, in the event that we do show a trend change in weather duration.

    So, what I propose, is to gather daily weather records for multiple locations across the prairies, and analyse them for changes in duration of various weather patterns, as a proxy for jet stream movement.

    Unfortunately, I have attempted to graph long term precipitation and temperature for my area, and found the environment Canada records to be abysmal. There are gaps in the data anywhere from days to decades long, station locations and names change, and mixing data from various different stations to fill in the gaps really distorts the picture. So, it might take some effort to find stations with enough high quality data.

    So, if you or anyone else interested wants to look up the data, and ideally get it into a spreadsheet, or at least rows and columns that can easily be imported into Excel, I would be willing to attempt to analyse it for pattern changes. At a bare minimum we would need daily precipitation, and daily high temperatures. Daily lows, overcast days, and wind direction/speed would also be good proxies if they are available.

    To be meaningful, the data should go back to at least the 1930's, to encompass the previous cycle high, to see if weather duration also follows the same cycles, or is unique to the modern high CO2 era.

    Merry Christmas

    #2
    This would be interesting as I too have been frustrated with the lack of consistent data in rural areas. In my case it is the Vegreville station. There is some data going back to the 30's around but the station location moved 4 times so there was not data from one place. Precip data is also terrible as it is frequently missing and the automated stations now in use are notoriously inaccurate. Trends do seem to stay in place longer as you have noted. I quit combining wheat at 18% hoping it would get down under 17% in Oct. but wished I kept going as now it is still out there. Subsequent attempts were between 19.5 and 21. Elevator not a fan of that higher moisture. Last year had swaths under snow that did get picked up at 16%. Would be nice to know the odds of that happening to assess wether or not a dryer is necessary on the farm.

    Comment


      #3
      Ancestors that influenced my life suggested weather patterns change every six weeks. And my grandmother always warned us that Jewish holidays in September would bring wet weather so we always wanted to have our lentils binned and dry by that particular holiday. In 39 years of growing the finickity little guys, gotta say the warning helped us many times. Coincidence maybe.

      Comment


        #4
        For a truce with chuck, he would have to admit the following;

        1. science is not settled
        2. solar and wind will be a miniscule part of the energy mix
        3. disavow the socialist agenda accompaning the climate debate
        4. accept that oil demand will be unchanged up until the year 2100

        and swear fealty to Trump

        Then we can talk.

        Comment


          #5
          We are getting COLDER so hell might freeze and that could happen jazz...Learner says cold spring?

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by jazz View Post
            For a truce with chuck, he would have to admit the following;

            1. science is not settled
            2. solar and wind will be a miniscule part of the energy mix
            3. disavow the socialist agenda accompaning the climate debate
            4. accept that oil demand will be unchanged up until the year 2100

            and swear fealty to Trump

            Then we can talk.
            Jazz, we have beat all those horses to death, with no progress, and nothing productive ever comes out of it.

            While all of the changes we have discussed and seen in modern times have been positive for humans and specifically agriculture, and we have very successfully adapted to the increased CO2 and climate trends. but, this is one that could go either way, if indeed it actually exists. Extended warm dry weather during harvest vs. extended warm dry during June for example. Personally, I've yet to find any useful(for my own operation) information from the long term global warming forecasts. But this is info that I think I could actually put to use. And if there is indeed a trend change, the reason why, really doesn't matter, our ability to adapt and make use of this information is what matters. And if Chuck can use it to win over some converts, then we all win.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by AlbertaFarmer5 View Post
              Jazz, we have beat all those horses to death, with no progress, and nothing productive ever comes out of it.
              If chuck wants to have a conversation on real pollution, efficiencies, waste and all that I am totally open. CO2 would be down the list of things to tackle.

              But if an alternative climate researcher like Drew Lerner were to definitively say CO2 induced climate change is happening and not long solar cycles, I will get on the wagon.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by jazz View Post
                If chuck wants to have a conversation on real pollution, efficiencies, waste and all that I am totally open. CO2 would be down the list of things to tackle.

                But if an alternative climate researcher like Drew Lerner were to definitively say CO2 induced climate change is happening and not long solar cycles, I will get on the wagon.
                Yes, but neither of those events is likely to happen, and neither would provide useful information for those of us trying to make a living within this climate. Chuck is obviously passionate about this cause, and willing to invest a lot of time and energy into defending it. Regardless whether we agree with his motivation, if we can work towards a common goal that would benefit both parties, then why not put the previous animosity aside, and work towards something productive?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by AlbertaFarmer5 View Post
                  Jazz, we have beat all those horses to death, with no progress, and nothing productive ever comes out of it.

                  While all of the changes we have discussed and seen in modern times have been positive for humans and specifically agriculture, and we have very successfully adapted to the increased CO2 and climate trends. but, this is one that could go either way, if indeed it actually exists. Extended warm dry weather during harvest vs. extended warm dry during June for example. Personally, I've yet to find any useful(for my own operation) information from the long term global warming forecasts. But this is info that I think I could actually put to use. And if there is indeed a trend change, the reason why, really doesn't matter, our ability to adapt and make use of this information is what matters. And if Chuck can use it to win over some converts, then we all win.
                  "Our ability to adapt and make use of this information" To me this is the most important aspect. Climate alarmists like Chuck only seem to be interested in spending money lowering or eliminating C02 emissions not analyzing the change if any in our weather patterns and how to adapt. What amazes me is that the science says that the amount of C02 in the atmosphere already guarantees a continued increase in global temperatures. In 2019 China's demand for coal increased 7% in 2019. C02 emissions will continue to rise, therefore I agree with AB5 our money and effort should be spent on adaptation. Does this mean shorter season crops? Every farm installing drying equipment? Lowering or changing fertility to enhance crop maturity? Many ways to go!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Cum by ya my lord, Cum by ya.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      https://changingclimate.ca/CCCR2019/ https://changingclimate.ca/CCCR2019/

                      Canada's Changing Climate 2019 Report

                      Here is some Christmas reading for you.

                      There is not much point in trying to analyze data when a lot of the work has been done already by Environment Canada, The Prairie Climate Centre and the Alberta Climate Records.

                      Merry Christmas!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by chuckChuck View Post
                        https://changingclimate.ca/CCCR2019/ https://changingclimate.ca/CCCR2019/

                        Canada's Changing Climate 2019 Report

                        Here is some Christmas reading for you.

                        There is not much point in trying to analyze data when a lot of the work has been done already by Environment Canada, The Prairie Climate Centre and the Alberta Climate Records.

                        Merry Christmas!
                        A quick glance doesn't indicate anything about persistent weather patterns or jet streams. Am I missing it?

                        Just the usual good news about warmer nights, and winters, moderating highs, less extremes, and more plant food.

                        That is why I expect we need to do the foot work ourselves on this one.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Sorry I don’t think you will get far on this.

                          The data is all so heavily edited and massaged that nobody could ever find out the truth anymore. Sad to see all the real data replaced with computer models of historic data. I guess whatever it takes to tell a story

                          https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2019/09/20/delingpole-environment-canada-airbrushes-100-years-of-inconvenient-climate-data-out-of-history/

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by AlbertaFarmer5 View Post
                            Jazz, we have beat all those horses to death, with no progress, and nothing productive ever comes out of it.
                            Good you realized the very purpose of social media. To sell commercial space while you pointlessly argue.

                            But you're right, maybe this time its different.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Agrivillers WHO Dont believe in climate change, please read peer reviewed scientific articles , not some hokey tabloid crap that proves your denial syndrome. Its been over 30 years since the scientific community WARNED us of problems associated with climate change.

                              WE NEED to have DISCUSSION ON HOW WE GO ABOUT FINDING A SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM
                              NOT A DISCUSSION ON IF, THE PROBLEM EXISTS

                              Merry Christmas

                              Comment

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