An olive branch to Chuck. Let's collaborate on proving climate change on the prairie

[bucket]

So when they do ice cores or tree rings that say this type of weather has happened before that doesn't count?

Or when they correlate volcanoes to changes centuries ago.?

Or the fact most of the nonsense AL Gore predicted didn't happen....and they put it off a few decades.. .


I am a denier. ...and am sticking to it....


Mostly because my acres have covered off my emissions and then some....

[macdon02]

Hopefully these posted in correct order. I see a trend in my growing season locally.

I had taken the screen shots back in August because i was looking for trend in the growing season. Just went back to pull up 2018 numbers as i don't have them, neither does the site. They pulled the "historical" tab so you can't look back to compare previous years. Nice.....

[jazz]

Agrivillers WHO Dont believe in climate change, please read peer reviewed scientific articles , not some hokey tabloid crap that proves your denial syndrome. Its been over 30 years since the scientific community WARNED us of problems associated with climate change.

WE NEED to have DISCUSSION ON HOW WE GO ABOUT FINDING A SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM
NOT A DISCUSSION ON IF, THE PROBLEM EXISTS

Merry Christmas

And here is the reason we are right back at square one.

People aren't deniers because they want to be. They are deniers because no prediction from that theory has come true, the models are still wildly inaccurate and the facts on the ground contradict the theory all together.

Now add in the MSM frenzy, breathless reporting, shaming, celebrity hypocrisy, UN incompetence, etc and the entire industry has discredited itself.

Not even the hyped up weather networks can link it to the next few months forecast. We are in for a mild, low precip winter here exactly the opposite of their winter forecast said.

[TASFarms]

The u.n. Says you are a believer or a denier and no middle ground allowed. If you take all the u.n. Bullshit and throw it in the garbage there isn’t a problem

[jazz]

Even when they twist the theory to cover every outcome that doesnt work either.

Oh the scary polar vortex is going to come and kill you every week. It has been down once this year and that was short lived and mild. Looks like a similar one in mid January.

And natural processes are left out of the models entirely, undersea smokers, volcanoes, carbon released along continental plates, heat transfer to oceans from mantle, heat escape into space, cloud cover morphology, solar cycles, sunspots, magnetosphere, land snow pack, increased CO2 absorption by larger plant life, etc etc.

Put me in front of the IPCC panel and I would have a field day with those egg heads.

[Hamloc]

Agrivillers WHO Dont believe in climate change, please read peer reviewed scientific articles , not some hokey tabloid crap that proves your denial syndrome. Its been over 30 years since the scientific community WARNED us of problems associated with climate change.

WE NEED to have DISCUSSION ON HOW WE GO ABOUT FINDING A SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM
NOT A DISCUSSION ON IF, THE PROBLEM EXISTS

Merry Christmas

Mustardman I quickly looked through the link Chuck posted. Here is what I got out of it. Temperatures in Canada have risen on average 1.8 degrees. Most of the warming has been in the winter but some in the summer. We could experience higher levels of precipitation due to the warmer atmosphere holding more water vapour but we could also experience more heat and drought. One part talks about an increase in growing degree days, another part says there will be no increase. Really in my opinion a bunch of double talk jibberish.

What I have experienced is that in 4 of the last 5 years we have had significant snow fall in September. Harvest has been long, wet and cold. 5 years ago I can't think of one farm in my area with a grain dryer, lots of aeration bins but no dryers. Now over half my neighbors have installed dryers and those that haven't including myself are thinking about it. What complicates the decision is the carbon tax. In Alberta Jan. 1 $20 a tonne, rising to $30 a tonne April 1, 2020. In Saskatchewan I believe your carbon tax goes up to $30 a tonne Jan. 1. A good drying installation is expensive and will take a few years to pay for, will the future cost of natural gas make drying grain cost prohibitive? Will we continue to have shitty fall weather?

Mustardman you want solutions. If you think lowering C02 emissions is the answer then you must find a way to lower emissions in countries like China. A recent WSJ article says that China's demand for coal rose 7% in 2019. They import 72% of their oil and in 2020 it is projected they will be the largest importer of natural gas in the world. China emits as much C02 in 3 weeks as Canada does in a year! So call me a denier if you wish, I call myself a realist. I think if we are going to survive we must adapt. Increasing the size, cost and scope of government isn't going to do a damn thing!

[jazz]

That is why I expect we need to do the foot work ourselves on this one.

That report says nothing about long cycles and its projections out 100 yrs are wildly variable. Look at the error bands.

And no data pre-1900 when we know a lot of temp records were set and no data further back when we know solar minimums have taken root before.

There is a quote in one of the IPCCs own emails of a scientist asking the question What if its just a multi-decade blip? That certainly doesn't exude certainty to me.

Look at the mean temp graphic. One of the models shows barely a change at all in our temp going forward while the other shows 5 degrees of warming. Even their own models cant agree. And then they use a reference period of 1985-2005 to compare it against. Why those years? Why not 1885 to 1905? Why not 1400-1410 BC?

They are looking at the planet as a snapshot in time and that's the wrong approach.

[mustardman]

Hammock yes China and India produce a lot of GHG but in Saskatchewan we Are Entitled to be the Biggest GHG Emitter on the planet. (Per person)
So as we sit IDLING our Trucks in the Tim Hortons for 20 minutes or driving a truck ,when 99% of the time a car would be more sensible ,like our parents did or insulating our buildings better Etc Etc.
Instead of chipping in to change habits for the betterment of our grandchildren,we Bitch and complain about having to change our ENTITLED life style

[jazz]

Instead of chipping in to change habits for the betterment of our grandchildren,we Bitch and complain about having to change our ENTITLED life style

Then that's a different conversation that CO2 shaming and the earth will burn frenzy.

Sask is a fluke of geography and new settlement, low population finds itself on a resource jackpot. Of course we are going to stand out like a sore thumb, but that hardly means we are entitled.

Also if its carbon you are worried about, sask its already carbon neutral. Farmers and trees sequester our emissions right back into the earth every year but we shouldn't trust that science now should we? Just left out of the equation.

[bucket]

Hammock yes China and India produce a lot of GHG but in Saskatchewan we Are Entitled to be the Biggest GHG Emitter on the planet. (Per person)
So as we sit IDLING our Trucks in the Tim Hortons for 20 minutes or driving a truck ,when 99% of the time a car would be more sensible ,like our parents did or insulating our buildings better Etc Etc.
Instead of chipping in to change habits for the betterment of our grandchildren,we Bitch and complain about having to change our ENTITLED life style

I live on a farm ....a car serves no purpose....I will only plug in when really cold....

And my house is well insulated as mentioned in another thread...can I do more .....

Maybe but it becomes cost prohibitive. ....

Natural gas servicing the house is the best option for heating.... ....


I don't think that's entitled anything....

Makes more sense than flaring it off.....

[jazz]

And targting rural people is a little rich isnt it? I mean its mostly surburban families driving SUVs to the store to pick up bannas and avacadoes flown in overnight on 747s and chinese junk railed in from the coast. Fish caught on Canadians coast lines, processed in china and shipped back here. Canadian timber cut, shipped to china and comes back as ikea furniture destined for the land fill.

I will accept climate change when every facet that contributes to it is on the table.

And that's the day it would die.

[Hamloc]

Hammock yes China and India produce a lot of GHG but in Saskatchewan we Are Entitled to be the Biggest GHG Emitter on the planet. (Per person)
So as we sit IDLING our Trucks in the Tim Hortons for 20 minutes or driving a truck ,when 99% of the time a car would be more sensible ,like our parents did or insulating our buildings better Etc Etc.
Instead of chipping in to change habits for the betterment of our grandchildren,we Bitch and complain about having to change our ENTITLED life style

So the U.N. states that we must reduce our GHG emissions 7% every year until 2030 and beyond to avoid catastrophic global warming. I don't think avoiding Tim Hortons and adding insulation to my house will fix that problem. Incidentally I live in a well insulated 1300 sq. ft. house and usually take a 4 cyl. Equinox to town. So instead of going of spewing a sanctimonious load of crap why not address the questions I asked?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Sorry guys, I was not trying to start another global warming thread.

I was trying to unite two disparate causes towards a common goal.

I and others want to know if the persistent weather patterns we are experiencing are related to a "stuck" jet stream, and if this is in any way unprecedented, and if it is, could we plan and budget around this new reality.

Chuck et al want to convince the rest of us about the imminent threat of global warming. The current strategy of The daily beatings will continue until morale improves just isn't having the desired effect. All of their dire scenario's occur in the future, in other parts of the world, and are based on models which most of us consider to be highly suspect(based on their track record). So, they need an example of how global warming is affecting us( farmer members of Agriville), today, in our own backyards. If we can show that the persistence of weather patterns in recent years is significantly longer than it was in decades past, that would be more effective at convincing farmers that "climate change" is real, happening now, and happening to us, than a million cut and paste about the future of somewhere else could ever hope to be.

If you want to convince me that I should get on board with wanting to do something about global warming, a good first step might be to find evidence that it is detrimental to my farm, here and now. A stalled jet stream causing prolonged weather patterns is the only example I can find that hasn't yet been disproven, or proven beneficial. Chuck brings it up often, without any concrete evidence. He may be right. My suspicion is that if it were correct, someone would already have done the research and the warmists would be rubbing our noses in it daily, since it would be a very powerful tool for selling the agenda. That fact that they have been speculating about this, but not providing evidence is telling, but I want to know for sure. All the information is available, just need to sort through and find some quality data sets, and i am willing to do the work to look for pattern changes.

Any takers?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Agrivillers WHO Dont believe in climate change, please read peer reviewed scientific articles , not some hokey tabloid crap that proves your denial syndrome. Its been over 30 years since the scientific community WARNED us of problems associated with climate change.

WE NEED to have DISCUSSION ON HOW WE GO ABOUT FINDING A SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM
NOT A DISCUSSION ON IF, THE PROBLEM EXISTS

Merry Christmas

And this is the problem I am referring to. You have started out at the last step. And somehow believe that by insulting anyone who dares to comprehends how the scientific method is supposed to function, you can convince them to skip all the other steps in the process and start right at the end with a solution. You need to back up and get true buy in from all citizens, and convince them that there really is a problem that needs solving if you hope to find a workable solution. I propose a way to get the most stubborn (and potentially most affected, if Chuck is right) of those in opposition to see it your way. Are you willing to help?

[vvalk]

Hammock yes China and India produce a lot of GHG but in Saskatchewan we Are Entitled to be the Biggest GHG Emitter on the planet. (Per person)
So as we sit IDLING our Trucks in the Tim Hortons for 20 minutes or driving a truck ,when 99% of the time a car would be more sensible ,like our parents did or insulating our buildings better Etc Etc.
Instead of chipping in to change habits for the betterment of our grandchildren,we Bitch and complain about having to change our ENTITLED life style

Just wondering mustard and chuck and anyone whoThinks the world is in trouble over man made emissions. If your so concerned have you stopped going to all movies or entertainment. ( think of all the emmissions making these movies. Wouls be absolutely incredible the carbon footprint of these movies).do you even need television? Think of the footprint of all the shows on the tv? Music? All the productions and costs? Who need that’s when the world is dying. What about entertainment like professional sports. Shut every league down. Can’t even count the emissions Flying around all those teams all over the world, stadiums etc etc. Olympics? Forget it
Does your wife stop buying makeup? Jewelry. Who’s needs that when the world is dying? Really anything that you really don’t need to live. Do you need kiwis or other fruits not local to survive? Do we really need landscaping around all the houses? More emission from a lawnmower, whopper sniper then 50 vehicles
Could go and on and on and on and on
So why are we worried about beef production or how we farm? Or natural gas ( or any heat source) that anyone living under avg temp of 20 degs would literally die without. Think about how crazy that is over everything I just mentioned. Until the Gretas St all give up all of the stuff I mentioned and everything else I didn’t then they will have some moral authority.