Alberta Fair Deal Panel

[jazz]

If you haven't been to one of these or seen one in action, its safe to say AB will be taking it up the a** from Canada for a long time to come, probably forever.

[chuckChuck]

If you haven't been to one of these or seen one in action, its safe to say AB will be taking it up the a** from Canada for a long time to come, probably forever.

When the premiers met the discussion focussed on improving the fiscal stabilization plan. Equalization was not on the table because there would have been little agreement on what to do. The 2 provinces where there is the most grumbling are also the ones with higher fiscal capacity. In other words high per capita incomes and strong per capita GDP. Both have the capacity to raise more provincial revenues on their own to cover provincial spending needs.

As Errol pointed out in another thread the downturn in the oil industry is also affecting Houston and Texas. So you can’t blame Canadian politicians. Commodity Booms don’t last forever. High prices bring over production which cause lower prices. Coupled with slower growth in China commodities are in a slump.

[ajl]

I think most Albertans are aware of the downturn in oil prices, but lieberal operatives such as chuck are doing disservice by trying to deflect from the fact that the clown show in ottawa is making the problems worse. This is the biggest thing in AB politics right now and that is getting the independence train accelerating. Kenny is not likely the man for that job unfortunately because of spending too much time in ottawa. AB has two choices today, try to swim on our own or go down with canuckistan. That is the stark reality of our situation today.

[blackpowder]

I say stand our ground and carry a big stick.

[jazz]

Did you guys watch the presenters? Out of 40 people about a 30-40% demanded actions toward independence. 40% didnt want their pensions messed with and love Canada no matter what. 20% hated oil, Jason Kenny, and thought AB was getting a good deal and the panel was a waste of money.

Don't see how any sort of independence would fly. You are looking at a referendum that about 30% would respond yes too.

It clear that AB will continue to get bled dry by the east for a long time yet.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

It clear that AB will continue to get bled dry by the east for a long time yet.

Everyone has a breaking point. Even the Chuck's of the world.

[ajl]

Did you guys watch the presenters? Out of 40 people about a 30-40% demanded actions toward independence. 40% didnt want their pensions messed with and love Canada no matter what. 20% hated oil, Jason Kenny, and thought AB was getting a good deal and the panel was a waste of money.

Don't see how any sort of independence would fly. You are looking at a referendum that about 30% would respond yes too.

It clear that AB will continue to get bled dry by the east for a long time yet.

An independence referendum would have pensioners and government workers pitted against the working stiff. In the UK, farmers were mostly remoaners as they associated the EU with their welfare despite the fact that the UK disproportionaly paid the bill for that. Most 70+ will say things like canuckistan is the best country in the world frequently. That is because they have been the recipients of wealth transfer most of their lives and associate canuckistan with their pension. The currently retired made out like bandits on that deal as they did not contribute enough for the payout they are getting. CPP is a ponzi scheme. So things will have to get worse before they get better apparently.

[bucket]

The separatist sentiment is waning....really too bad because with the conservatives taking their sweet time deciding a new leader ....Trudeau will have another free ride....

I think the conservatives should have decided on April on a new leader and defeated the government asap....they could have done it with Scheer and then picked a new leader....but neither party really cares about Canadians....they care about being MPs and taking more from Canada than they give....

[grassfarmer]

....... In the UK, farmers were mostly remoaners........

No, you're quite wrong there - UK farmers are/were mostly Leave voters despite realizing their businesses will be on the front line when Brexit happens due to the export orientation of the UK AG sector. More than half, and as high as 2/3 of UK farmers voted for Brexit according to any poll I've seen. They've had their fill of EU regulation that is applied to the letter but disregarded in other countries amongst other things. As the famous quote from a senior French politician went when challenged on that - "Rules? they are for the English"

[jazz]

Dump ottawa !

No carbon tax, no GST, no federal income tax, no equalization to Quebec !

# weexit !

None of that is going to work. Equalization is enshrined in the constitution. I thought AB would get some of that stabilization cash back but now NB has stepped up as the next broke ass province so it will probably go there now.

In a few years everything east of MB will be getting the dole.

The only chance AB has is a full court press to the supreme court to protect jurisdiction over provincial natural resources.

[poorboy]

The equalization payment is a mathematical calculation. It is based on income from the tax returns. Quebec has been very smart over the years and the provincial government includes way more things into the average persons life so that lower incomes are needed to have the same things. This also gets a transfer payment.

So why are the other provinces still complaining. Start getting the provincial governments to provide many more services and have a wage freeze so the equalization formula pays out the same for everyone, not just Quebec. If the average Quebec income is $55,000 and the provincial government gives each person $15,000 more is that not much better than the $70,000 that Albertans get as average income. This simple reality is why Quebec gets equalization payments.

[jazz]

So why are the other provinces still complaining. Start getting the provincial governments to provide many more services and have a wage freeze so the equalization formula pays out the same for everyone, not just Quebec. If the average Quebec income is $55,000 and the provincial government gives each person $15,000 more is that not much better than the $70,000 that Albertans get as average income. This simple reality is why Quebec gets equalization payments.

I was thinking the same thing, must be a way to game income so at least AB money stays in the province. The feds cannot tax the province itself, only its people.

This might be the strategy for a sales tax. Expanded govt services backed by sales tax which translates to an equalization claw back.

Get the big paying jobs in the patch to be paid out as shares or options or something directly to RRSPs for people, sheltered from the govt. Created an AB only heritage investment fund that is RRSP eligible.

[poorboy]

I was actually told that Quebec government pays for child care and post secondary education. Power rates are also subsidized from the Govt. Probably a whole bunch of other items that are also paid for by the provincial government, so less personal income is needed to have the same amount of savings at the end of a lifetime. Less personal income means less tax paid federally.

These are some of the things that are working well in Quebec and the main reason they want to limit emigration. Don't want a whole bunch of new people showing up just to freeload on the gov't freebies.

How could Alberta and Saskatchewan and other provinces follow this motto?

If personal incomes are dropping, perhaps a sales tax and/or the new transfer payments could be put towards offering some perks for residents.

Child care help. Lets work on populating this country ourselves.
Free education. Lots of skilled workers needed.
How about something for retirement. I wouldn't need as high a wage if my retirement was more secure. Unfortunately it costs a lot to get old if your heath is failing.
Free medicine or at least extremely reasonable costs.
Any thing else that lowers cost of living.

If wages drop because there are more cost of living things provided, then it should be cheaper for businesses to operate, eat out or other entertainment , etc.

OVERALL

NET IN MY POCKET SHOULD BE THE SAME, BUT LESS $$$ GETS SENT TO OTTAWA. SHOULD EVEN QUALIFY FOR A TRANSFER PAYMENT.