We Could Power and Heat all of Western Canada's homes on Straw.

[Zephyr]

Yes, but the nutrients we buy with the $80 per acre are not sustainable or renewable. They either come from a hole in the ground, or come from natural gas. And are not as stable in the soil. Not arguing the economics, but selling it as a sustainable alternative is going to be tough.

Nitrogen is fully renwwable.

If we look at nutrient recovery from cities we would be a lot closer also on P.

The point is 99% of flax straw gets burnt. Lots of cereal straw gets burnt.

We get nothing out of that its a completely wasted resource.


Also theres a few studies now showing that straw removal isnt taking very much for nutrients or OM, at least not compared to what we thought...

Roots chaff and stubble is all there still.

[WiltonRanch]

Syngas is not a new idea. Seen articles about trucks and tractors running on wood years ago. FWIW the equipment needed to do this isn’t super complex but to do a super efficient job probably is. A stationary unit running an engine producing electricity would be interesting to say the least.

[MBgrower]

You might as well burn it if your not going to get a credit to sequester it.

[WiltonRanch]

Done a bit more reading on this and wondered how feasible it would be to completely power a grain drying system on straw gas? Power a generator to run electric motors and run the burner.

[bucket]

Sorry, but could we then not make syngas from coal?

Or refinery coke.....????
I thought there was talk of using it?

[FarmJunkie]

Great ideas boys but like anything that gets started it’s the initial setup that’s the killer. Need deep pockets or government backing to keeping it rolling through the first rough spot. That’s usually about the time the money runs out or government abandons u.

[jazz]

You need to understand the electrical grid in context of these ideas. To be a consistant power source it has to be created from a few central locations where straw would have to be hauled to. Once you factor the transport cost in, it becomes uneconomical.

So the alternative is a bunch of producers with their own systems feeding the grid. Can you imagine trying to balance the grid with hundreds of guys burning bales whenever they feel like it?

You are taking a reliable grid backed with reliable fuel in a few locations, coal, nat gas, hydro and risking it with intermittent loads. Maybe that works in California but not here.

The best use for a waste fuel like that is to use it locally to create a higher value product. Some guy by NB was using flax straw to heat his greenhouse.

[Zephyr]

You need to understand the electrical grid in context of these ideas. To be a consistant power source it has to be created from a few central locations where straw would have to be hauled to. Once you factor the transport cost in, it becomes uneconomical.

So the alternative is a bunch of producers with their own systems feeding the grid. Can you imagine trying to balance the grid with hundreds of guys burning bales whenever they feel like it?

You are taking a reliable grid backed with reliable fuel in a few locations, coal, nat gas, hydro and risking it with intermittent loads. Maybe that works in California but not here.

The best use for a waste fuel like that is to use it locally to create a higher value product. Some guy by NB was using flax straw to heat his greenhouse.

Biomass is reliable, 24/7/365 generation.


You do need to understand power grids... The way they are being designed today, and the way changes are designed into them is to allow for distributed loads and distributed access.

Just like CoGen stations, the utility regulates how much energy is fed into the grid, and these fully automated systems burn / produce only as much energy as demand requires.

[jazz]

Biomass is reliable, 24/7/365 generation.

We already have our RM just about ready to ban flax straw burning. The public tolerate it because its just for a few weeks of the year.

I don't know what they would think about some major central locations with hundreds of bales being burned every day or every farm with its own biogas facility. When the temp dropped to -30 the other day, a low level inversion was created here in S Sask and anything creating steam or smoke was stuck close to the ground. Imagine the backlash of every farm burning biomass during those periods.

A handful of flax straw facilities is possible because its being burned already and its not a large acreage crop like wheat. Flax straw takes years to break down naturally and has little nutrient value. Used to be one in Weyburn taking straw to make cigarette papers but they were so fussy about the flax straw and you had to haul it to them. Guys just said f it and burned it or switched to canola.

You would have to sell the public on the carbon neutral aspects of it.

[Zephyr]

We already have our RM just about ready to ban flax straw burning. The public tolerate it because its just for a few weeks of the year.

I don't know what they would think about some major central locations with hundreds of bales being burned every day or every farm with its own biogas facility. When the temp dropped to -30 the other day, a low level inversion was created here in S Sask and anything creating steam or smoke was stuck close to the ground. Imagine the backlash of every farm burning biomass during those periods.

A handful of flax straw facilities is possible because its being burned already and its not a large acreage crop like wheat. Flax straw takes years to break down naturally and has little nutrient value. Used to be one in Weyburn taking straw to make cigarette papers but they were so fussy about the flax straw and you had to haul it to them. Guys just said f it and burned it or switched to canola.

You would have to sell the public on the carbon neutral aspects of it.

You really dont get it.


Gassifiers don't smoke. They exceed EPA standards and EU emission standards.

The exhaust from biomass syngas units is the same as from a natural gas generation plant.


Look at Frohling pellet burners. They are condensing... Vent the same way as a high efficiency gas furnace.

[blackpowder]

Heating all of Western Canada with straw eh??

[jazz]

Still doesnt address the real issues;

1. Lack of evidence of the problem
2. Miniscule contribution by Canada of said problem.
3. Zero efforts by 90% of the worlds countries toward said problem.
4. Question of whether Canada is a problem at all (already carbon neutral)
5. Subtitution of efficient cost effective technology with questionable replacements that have offloaded their economics onto other industries and failing to account for the necessary back up for the technology. Discounting the CO2 produced from transition to the technology like windmills using more CO2 to make than they will offset in their life time.
6. Using fuzzy economics to justify such a technology while ignoring others already having an effect, ie carbon sequestration.
7. Putting resources into questionable temporary tech instead of a moonshot for the real game changer, fusion.
8. Totally ignoring solutions right in front of your face, ie nuclear
9. And offloading the disruptive change onto one and only one industry; energy production, while other industries get a pass like transportation, globalization, aviation, jet setting PMs.
10. Diverting resources from real problems.