Kenney address

[blackpowder]

Why was the oil industry not making hay while the sun shone?
The anti oil lobby had nothing to do with it???
Govt squandering in good times is a separate issue.
Rachel Suzuki Fonda better lay low for a while.
We'll need all the income we can get while the getting is good. That's business. Good luck taxing dreams.

[dmlfarmer]

DML you say farmers are smart enough to cut back production but I say when have we ever seen that. You are wrong, low prices means you need to produce more bushels to most people. And to say you would stop production if was negative again is not true, fortunately ag has not quite seen that... yet. But think about it if all of a sudden there was a "no bid" in July for grain would you still harvest it? I bet you would. If there were a "no bid" before seeding do you seed anyways hoping for improvement or do you summerfallow, with costs of tillage or chem? Wouldn't both of those choices being the same as what you are criticizing - taking a business loss while operating? Those big mines with thousands of employees and billions of investment can't just turn the tap off because its Wednesday and then turn it back on the following week when prices change, or if they moth ball it they still have huge costs to produce nothing.

...

Read what I said again. It is opposite of you say I said. Most farmers do not cut production as prices fall but prefer to try to increase production volume to account for lower prices thereby maintaining income levels.

However, I know of no farmers who actually pay buyers to take their production which is what Kenney said the oil industry would have to do it prices turn negative. Farmers would rather store grains for years rather than pay a buyer to take it. They already have invested a fortune in growing a crop and certainly would not throw more money away by paying someone to take their production away.

Your analogy of not seeding or harvesting if there is no bid is not comparable. Farmers have invested in that crop and will seed or harvest it but then store it until it can be sold. They will not pay someone simply to get it off the farm. The only comparison that could be made is if they have livestock which die and then they resort to hiring someone to haul the dead animals away. But at this point the livestock have no value, unlike live animals, or grain, or oil for that matter which are all saleable assets, if not now but will have value sometime in the future.. Why would anyone, including Kenney even suggest paying someone to take our assets and resources? You say oil industry cannot afford to not to produce - so how could they afford not only to produce but to actually pay someone to take the production away. His comments were ludicrous.

[MBgrower]

Listened to Kenney address this AM on https://globalnews.ca/edmonton/ Given the positive comments about Kenney speech on here I expected some direction and plans to cope with the current situation, yet all he delivers in his speech is despair and excuses.

I cannot believe his comments starting at 11:30 mark where he states: Western Canadian oil in the last week has fallen as low as $3.00/barrel. There is a very real possibility that as global inventories overflow our energy will hit negative prices. We will be paying people to take away our energy.

No wonder so many on this list like him. He follows the same production model many posters do. Produce more if prices are low. However, he even goes one step further than most farmers - raising the possibility of Alberta paying people to take away our oil. Wow! Most farmers will at least reduce production when production costs exceed variable costs, Kenney actually raises possibility of not only giving away production but paying people to take it.

Couple this with the 1 plus billion Alberta just announced spending on XL plus another 6 billion in loan guarantees to sell our resources at below cost of production? At least Trudeau bought an existing pipeline first that is still generating revenues with 4 billion. And you think Kenney is a better money manager? or even a Conservative? Ha Ha.

He talks of diversifying the economy but he has now totally disseminated Alberta agriculture. He has cut every department except energy. What a joke.

Hog producers are forced to continue to produce at a loss or else its bye bye future contracting with the one or two processors.

[GDR]

DML, where are they gonna store it? We are used to storing a year plus of production. I dont know the numbers but sure it is more like days or weeks at most for the oil companies. I agree doesn't sound like a good production model, but they need to compare it to the other choice of doing a shutdown and restart to see what makes best financial sense, neither of us know that answer.

And the farmer storing grain doesnt always work either. I have 2 neighbor examples I can think of. One was canola in a hopper bin for 7 yrs, still there cause they cant figure how to chip it out, another had piles of feed wheat in the field with only a tarp over it, 2nd year spread it with a shit spreader. And the reality is price can always go lower.

[dmlfarmer]

DML, where are they gonna store it? We are used to storing a year plus of production. I dont know the numbers but sure it is more like days or weeks at most for the oil companies. I agree doesn't sound like a good production model, but they need to compare it to the other choice of doing a shutdown and restart to see what makes best financial sense, neither of us know that answer.

And the farmer storing grain doesnt always work either. I have 2 neighbor examples I can think of. One was canola in a hopper bin for 7 yrs, still there cause they cant figure how to chip it out, another had piles of feed wheat in the field with only a tarp over it, 2nd year spread it with a shit spreader. And the reality is price can always go lower.

We are not talking about oil producers merely meeting production costs. We are talking about Alberta citizens actually paying to give away assets. So would the canola farmer have been further ahead by getting 0 dollars for his canola and actually paying a grain buyer to take it off his hands? Or the wheat farmer not even getting the fertilizer value from his wheat and on top of that having to outlay more cash for a buyer to take his wheat. Because that is what Kenney was suggesting.

You are equating a perishable commodity to oil, which has been in the ground for millions of years. Surely it will keep in the ground and remain a valuable asset until this crisis is over and in my opinion, that is a much better option than Albertans and Canadians paying industry and foreign governments to take it off our hands.

[dmlfarmer]

Furthermore, Kenney says Alberta could be looking at unemployment in Alberta of 25% in the next two years. That is higher than unemployment has ever been anywhere in Canada. The worst was in NFLD in the 80's and then it was only 18%. Hell it is worst that the US unemployment numbers at the peak of the great depression at 24%. And Kenney is talking about spending money to give away our resources! If his truly believes his predictions I hope he shares his government plan with us real soon as to how Albertans are supposed to cope instead of just telling us how bad it is going to be.

Nice touch though, telling the oil industry the day before that the environmental cleanup is now a "collective financial liability." Was he telling the industry to expect another taxpayer gift to cover abandoned well cleanup. When did the oil industry and conservatives become such socialists to demand the taxpayers clean up their mess.

I guess just add this largess to other support governments from all parties give the oil industry. Industry says we cannot compete with foreign oil because ours cost more to produce so we need support. We cannot afford to build pipelines because of low prices so please subsidize pipeline construction. We cannot afford to build refineries in Canada, it is must better that subsidized pipelines take Canadian oil to US or Chinese refineries. Our increasing production has outstripped pipeline capacity so we need rail transport now so the government needs to build tank cars for us and displace some of that grain being moved and don't worry about safety. Yet when world oil prices fall to historical low levels that same industry tells Canadians faced with gasoline prices that don't come down that the industry is competitive so prices are where they should be.

[dfarms11]

You guys are comparing apples to oranges here. We can take a crop off and pile it, buy bins, put it in cheap bags to store it. You cant do that with oil! Oil needs to move. Hence a likely scenario to have to pay someone to take it.

Secondly, you cant just turn off the taps on the oil sands for example and turn them back on next week. It's a long drawn out process. I dont know exactly how long it takes but I'd be willing to bet it would take many months. And then many months to get things going again. Therefore it'll cost more to do that than keep things rolling at a loss for a year.

[dfarms11]

Upon reflection, the only way to make a comparison would be to spend the money putting seed , fert and spray into your crop and then tell the farmer to just leave it in the field, dont harvest it. Would you do that? No. Because even if grain prices tanked like oil has, you would still want to recoup some of your costs while not incurring more costs trying to make fields seedable next year

[TOM4CWB]

Upon reflection, the only way to make a comparison would be to spend the money putting seed , fert and spray into your crop and then tell the farmer to just leave it in the field, dont harvest it. Would you do that? No. Because even if grain prices tanked like oil has, you would still want to recoup some of your costs while not incurring more costs trying to make fields seedable next year

Good comparison dfarms11

We need to pray for wisdom and encourage our leaders... not throw rocks at them... they have the toughest job of anyone except/next to health care workers in ICU and hauling out the dead bodies...or dairy farmers dumping milk down the drain.

Try stopping milking cows and see how well that goes when we need milk in a month...

Easter Blessings! We pray for wisdom for our MP'S and MLA'S...PM and PREMIERS. Many blessings, safety, health, and good seeding weather!

[dmlfarmer]

Upon reflection, the only way to make a comparison would be to spend the money putting seed , fert and spray into your crop and then tell the farmer to just leave it in the field, dont harvest it. Would you do that? No. Because even if grain prices tanked like oil has, you would still want to recoup some of your costs while not incurring more costs trying to make fields seedable next year

tell me, how do you recoup costs if you get paid nothing for what you produce and in fact have to pay someone to take it.

in your farm example, you would have less expenses to leave the crop in the field than if you had to actually pay someone to take the crop (note in negative pricing you do not get paid anything for what you are selling and in fact your costs increase because you are paying someone to buy your asset)