Canola and planters

[furrowtickler]

Hi furrow
Two different seed packing concepts:
1. Traditional seed master, seed hawk, Bourgault, etc all have a wheel to pack the seed and furrrow closely behind the opener to both pack and manage seed depth. The openers blow dirt out to the side, causing very high ridges that can :
a) protect seedlings from wind and frost?
b) bury seed much deeper than intended, wind or heavy rain with or without wind
c) cause very rough fields, that old times called “un harvestable “, today many growers land roll those fields over packing them causing ponding and flooding of the fields low ground and sometimes most productive land. But smoother to harvest for vehicles or if crop is hailed on or lodged.
d) the ridges direct light rain fall and moisture over the seed to improve germination in dry years

2. Traditional planters all have (or most do) closing wheels that push the sidewalls of the trench to close the dirt over the seed , pushing moist dirt over the seed(if seeded deep enough) there by allowing for less dirt over the seed, no high side wall, loose dirt to wash and bury the seed deeper than intended
a) smooth fields
b seed depth that’s exactly where you set it, and it stays there


Question is, why don’t traditional air seeders use closing wheels vs packing wheels ?
Seems to be movement by some of the manufacturers back to disk openers.

I agree on the closing wheels 100%
Problem is with disc openers ... considered too much maintenance. That pretty much sums it up
On a planter like a Horsch they are very easy to change because of accessibility to the units , not so much on framed machines like drills though , that would be a huge PITA

[furrowtickler]

But if say Bourgault does come out with their design with a knife opener , which works great , and a set of closing wheels like we put on the Horsch , the notched zipper style . It will be a kick butt seeding system. But unfortunately the cost with be astronomical

[Rareearth]

I wonder if the closing wheels were on a Bourgault type machine if the ridges would be lower and fields smoother?

Now that I’m thinking about it the closer wheels won’t work as there would be to much down pressure on them to maintain depth.

For maintenance, go to a wider planter, then only half the maintenance,
40 feet to 60 or 80 feet wide like the big air drills.

Also seed damage, germination - seed quality etc is way better on a planter ( none once its in the tank) vs blowing it through hoses at a 100 mph cracking and splitting seeds - it’s a bigger problem than most realize.

[furrowtickler]

I wonder if the closing wheels were on a Bourgault type machine if the ridges would be lower and fields smoother?

Now that I’m thinking about it the closer wheels won’t work as there would be to much down pressure on them to maintain depth.

For maintenance, go to a wider planter, then only half the maintenance,
40 feet to 60 or 80 feet wide like the big air drills.

Also seed damage, germination - seed quality etc is way better on a planter ( none once its in the tank) vs blowing it through hoses at a 100 mph cracking and splitting seeds - it’s a bigger problem than most realize.

The 40 ft Horsch will cove the same ground as a 70 ft drill per hr when seeding.
They do make a 60 ft unit , but cost gets up fast
I like the individual row control for seed and sectional phos .

[Misterjade9]

I agree with your take that the damage caused by blow seeds at high velocity then dead ending them at the top of a tower. As for the pressure on the closer wheels if they were mounted on a standard PHD, would you not still be able to adjust that packing pressure as you do now. I have no practical experience with either so that is why I asked. From what I have gathered the Bourgault seed singulation will still use the same air distribution system as they do now with the 7 & 9000 series air carts, the seed will be blown to a small collection hopper and then be singulated from there like a planter does. What I don't know is how the vacuum will be created to suck the seeds to the disc.

I am not all that old and it seems to me seeding has come full circle in a short time. I remember as a kid my job was to crawl under the old IH K6 press drill and put the hose on from the oil pump and dad would give each run a couple pumps, then we got an old 100, it was great sealed bearings on the discs i was out of a job. From there all the way to the 7200's, you know all of those drills were a rudimentary paralink system with rudimentary seed singulation. It can almost be said we took a step backwards when we all went to the C shank seeding, cause now then trend is to high speed disc drills with seed singulation, oh look you have a planter, just with the ability to put down all your fert at once.

[Rareearth]

Hey Mister, you’re old enough if you remember those drills. Also the row spacing was 6 inches and 7.2 , which are ideal for grassy crops, maybe not the others? But ground cover was better, water loss/evaporated, weeds etc

The challenge is row spacing and the cost of openers, the spacing for disk openers (closest is 15 inches) or go to a multi frame disk opener (then service and depth adjustment difficulties?) and the big one fertility cost for stabilizers etc. Any agronomist worth salt would want it in the ground vs soil surface or foliar.

Need more fertilizer plants for N and cheaper pho’s, potash etc

[Guest]

I wonder why bourgault has never gone to a gentler manifold like Morris did ?
Guys here couldn’t seed borage with BG’s unless they had fertilizer mixed in stream otherwise it would smash the shit outta it
Never could understand that BG dead end wall ?

[furrowtickler]

Hey Mister, you’re old enough if you remember those drills. Also the row spacing was 6 inches and 7.2 , which are ideal for grassy crops, maybe not the others? But ground cover was better, water loss/evaporated, weeds etc

The challenge is row spacing and the cost of openers, the spacing for disk openers (closest is 15 inches) or go to a multi frame disk opener (then service and depth adjustment difficulties?) and the big one fertility cost for stabilizers etc. Any agronomist worth salt would want it in the ground vs soil surface or foliar.

Need more fertilizer plants for N and cheaper pho’s, potash etc

We are going to set up something similar to this ...


We were going to do it last fall but the weather left us no time .
Contain N is a very reasonable cost for a stabilizer

[kANOLA]

Furrow If were still farming I would given the planter a try.My last seedmaster drill was on 16 in spacing and was very satisfied with machine in canola. We did a lot of trials in seeding rates with that machine and found our best results came out around the 2.5 lbs. That was with canola around TKW of 6.We had ultra pro seed drive on machine but I believe planters would do better job of seed separation.

[furrowtickler]

Furrow If were still farming I would given the planter a try.My last seedmaster drill was on 16 in spacing and was very satisfied with machine in canola. We did a lot of trials in seeding rates with that machine and found our best results came out around the 2.5 lbs. That was with canola around TKW of 6.We had ultra pro seed drive on machine but I believe planters would do better job of seed separation.

Yes I think I know the unit . That worked very well.
JR has a similar unit set up on 15 in with techno tills . Always has very good results .
In good conditions and less than 5 g seed I would not be afraid to be at 1.5 .
We still got a decent plot at 1 lb but weed control and plant density drops off too fast .

[Hamloc]

A little late to this debate but very interesting.

First this year flea beetles were the thickest for me on land that was silage last year, less trash seemed to equal more damage from wind and rain. Certainly agree that deeper furrows offer more protection for the cotyledons. Maybe one reason why volunteer canola in cereal crops does so well it is better protected from the wind.

I am a little curious why phd drills would have more flea beetle damage because germination should be better than a conventional air drill.

One other thought, what is everyone’s opinion of the new Concorde precision shank drill? Some interesting features imo.

[furrowtickler]

A little late to this debate but very interesting.

First this year flea beetles were the thickest for me on land that was silage last year, less trash seemed to equal more damage from wind and rain. Certainly agree that deeper furrows offer more protection for the cotyledons. Maybe one reason why volunteer canola in cereal crops does so well it is better protected from the wind.

I am a little curious why phd drills would have more flea beetle damage because germination should be better than a conventional air drill.

One other thought, what is everyone’s opinion of the new Concorde precision shank drill? Some interesting features imo.

We were looking at it as a possible replacement for the old bourgault.
I like that set up .