G3 Vancouver

[LEP]

I am not sure I follow the bitching on this. Supposedly farmers own 49.9% of this entity. Someone comes along and buys half of the company with plans to expand with major capital Investments. Those plans would require cash from all the shareholders as well as debt financing. So since it would be impossible to collect a cash call from farmers trust the sale proceeds were left in the company on farmers behalf.

I don't see it as giving anything to the Saudis. It was given to those that obtained Farmers trust shares. It may or may not turn into anything. Personally, I don't haul to G3 unless they are the best price in town. But that is me.

[wmoebis]

I am not sure I follow the bitching on this. Supposedly farmers own 49.9% of this entity. Someone comes along and buys half of the company with plans to expand with major capital Investments. Those plans would require cash from all the shareholders as well as debt financing. So since it would be impossible to collect a cash call from farmers trust the sale proceeds were left in the company on farmers behalf.

I don't see it as giving anything to the Saudis. It was given to those that obtained Farmers trust shares. It may or may not turn into anything. Personally, I don't haul to G3 unless they are the best price in town. But that is me.

Maybe it was a good deal we will never know what was involved because of secrecy. Would you do the same deal with your farm without knowing the whole deal? Except in this case you wouldn't have any say or even see other offers.

[LEP]

Maybe it was a good deal we will never know what was involved because of secrecy. Would you do the same deal with your farm without knowing the whole deal? Except in this case you wouldn't have any say or even see other offers.

Nope I sure wouldn't. But can you claim we ever had any say in the previous entity either? Seems to me secrecy was the modus operandi of the CWB.

How much say does shares in RBC give you? Yes terms are disclosed in an annual statement, but after the fact, so very little recourse.

How many publicly traded companies have you owned that did bad deals? What was the recourse there? Wonder what the recourse for BASF shareholders for taking on Monsanto legal liability?

I had written off getting anything out of value of the sale of CWB. If they had sent out cheques what would it have amounted to $1,000 a piece?? At least there is a new terminal at the coast and some new concretes inland which should provide some competition for the families. It was more than any group of farmers could have done on their own.

[bucket]

Nope I sure wouldn't. But can you claim we ever had any say in the previous entity either? Seems to me secrecy was the modus operandi of the CWB.

How much say does shares in RBC give you? Yes terms are disclosed in an annual statement, but after the fact, so very little recourse.

How many publicly traded companies have you owned that did bad deals? What was the recourse there? Wonder what the recourse for BASF shareholders for taking on Monsanto legal liability?

I had written off getting anything out of value of the sale of CWB. If they had sent out cheques what would it have amounted to $1,000 a piece?? At least there is a new terminal at the coast and some new concretes inland which should provide some competition for the families. It was more than any group of farmers could have done on their own.

The SWP morphed into Viterra after swallowing agricore/UGG when they said they were broke...

SWP was never broke they just set in place a process to swindle farmers....

Ritz was an easy play with the transition because he was stupid and was getting the rah rah from his base...

There is no transparency in the grain industry in Canada .

Most days I can read or hear on the radio about a US sale of soybeans , wheat or corn to china or unknown destinations and for which delivery period...and its impact on the market...

No such thing is done in Canada ...so when the chinese bought a shitload of wheat from Canada...did many farmers know about it until it was halfway to china on a boat....any premium to that sale????who knows.

While I think G3 will pose a bit of a threat to the families for a while...I see in some cases they are having tea with them as well..

As an example...G3 is building a new elevator in Swift Current ...they have obviously worked an agreement to take a slice of the other 5 in that area...not real competing...more like colluding.

[LEP]

The SWP morphed into Viterra after swallowing agricore/UGG when they said they were broke...

SWP was never broke they just set in place a process to swindle farmers....

Ritz was an easy play with the transition because he was stupid and was getting the rah rah from his base...

There is no transparency in the grain industry in Canada .

Most days I can read or hear on the radio about a US sale of soybeans , wheat or corn to china or unknown destinations and for which delivery period...and its impact on the market...

No such thing is done in Canada ...so when the chinese bought a shitload of wheat from Canada...did many farmers know about it until it was halfway to china on a boat....any premium to that sale????who knows.

While I think G3 will pose a bit of a threat to the families for a while...I see in some cases they are having tea with them as well..

As an example...G3 is building a new elevator in Swift Current ...they have obviously worked an agreement to take a slice of the other 5 in that area...not real competing...more like colluding.

SWP didn’t morph into Viterra, Glencore paid billions for assets. Not sure what Ritz had to do with that. Shareholders took the hit as there was almost zero equity.

So building where there is other elevators isn’t creating competition?? I am quite sure they will all do what they have to, to keep their Respective plants full.

Twisted logic isn’t economic theory.

[bucket]

Another elevator in Swift current doesnt create competition....there is only one rail line through there....the railways can only do so much...

The grain to fill another elevator in that area has to now come from a longer distance costing farmers...or....the existing graincos have to be willing to give up some of their share of the areas grain that will be hauled there...

Ultimately it will cost farmers more money...

Now had they taken a location further out to get that longer haul grain sooner without costing farmers money in freight from the farm to the elevator ...that would be true competition....

Didn't happen...the elevators sat down and decided how much each was willing to give up....its a good thing for the graincos....probably means they can reduce hours...

The sad part is that none of the current elevators are working 24/7 like any other major industry does so the logic for another elevator can hardly be justified...

Truckers run through the night so if they load at 7 pm at a farmers yard they could still be delivering at midnight if the industry was running full...

[LEP]

Another elevator in Swift current doesnt create competition....there is only one rail line through there....the railways can only do so much...

The grain to fill another elevator in that area has to now come from a longer distance costing farmers...or....the existing graincos have to be willing to give up some of their share of the areas grain that will be hauled there...

Ultimately it will cost farmers more money...

Now had they taken a location further out to get that longer haul grain sooner without costing farmers money in freight from the farm to the elevator ...that would be true competition....

Didn't happen...the elevators sat down and decided how much each was willing to give up....its a good thing for the graincos....probably means they can reduce hours...

The sad part is that none of the current elevators are working 24/7 like any other major industry does so the logic for another elevator can hardly be justified...

Truckers run through the night so if they load at 7 pm at a farmers yard they could still be delivering at midnight if the industry was running full...

They don't throw darts when deciding to build an elevator. Rail & road access coming into it. They use GIS analysis like Thiessen Polygon to show the areas where they should most consider. Yes you are going to have to haul your grain, it a fact of life because of where you are situated.

But rest assured they didn't get together and decide who was going to give up what to allow in another elevator because it was "good" for them all. FFS.

We had another elevator built here. Driveway hours went from 8 to 5, to 7 to 7. All of a sudden they couldn't assume they had enough grain coming their way.

[Blaithin]

Another elevator in Swift current doesnt create competition....there is only one rail line through there....the railways can only do so much...

Didn't happen...the elevators sat down and decided how much each was willing to give up....its a good thing for the graincos....probably means they can reduce hours...

What...?

They don’t tend to sit down and negotiate who gets what grain from whom. Around here there’s been a burst of new terminals, GrainsConnect, G3 and Patterson. Existing companies seem to be in denial that it will affect them at all. Obviously it has and will, Patterson has been breaking “records” with CN left and right.

However Patterson is nicely located in that, while it’s on the same line as others, it is closer to farmers in areas like where AlbertaFarmer is, who would normally have to truck it farther south or east. Is that the railways fault or the grain cos fault? Really it sounds like it’s Red Deer County because they have never approved terminals. Either way, Patterson is closer access.

Does this mean they haven’t been offering competitive prices?

Not from what I’ve heard. It sounds like they’ve been offering better prices/deals than the established area terminals and farmers have been driving PAST those terminals to get to Patterson.

Now the competition hasn’t translated to drastically different price bids by any means, but they are there. Especially when they have a train they need to fill. The biggest pain is having to have the apps for every company so that you know when they’re running specials, and you need 5 different sales people texting, calling and emailing you all different/similar bids.

But speaking of sales staff... Staff is another area of competition between the terminals. Have they also colluded with one another for who gets which experienced staff? Many seasoned staff who have years of relationships with producers are switching companies and opening up the door for those farmers with those companies. I know the general consensus on here of elevator staff is fairly low most times, however farmers do like going to places where they get along with the staff. Maybe not enough to take a big hit in price differences, but it is a factor.

As is elevator set up and equipment. As these new, higher throughput terminals come on line, they’re offering more streamlined deliveries and quicker unloads and train loads (still dependant on the railroad to degrees of course). Older companies can’t compete with that, hence so many of them upgrading.


If having other companies in close radius to each other didn’t create competition then they would all be stagnant with flat prices, staff that didn’t switch companies, and no infrastructure upgrades.

Many farmers I’ve talked to in the last few years have stopped contracting so much to terminals. They’re more willing to sit on grain that hasn’t been contracted to take advantage of spot deals and train specials when they pop up.

[bucket]

They don't throw darts when deciding to build an elevator. Rail & road access coming into it. They use GIS analysis like Thiessen Polygon to show the areas where they should most consider. Yes you are going to have to haul your grain, it a fact of life because of where you are situated.

But rest assured they didn't get together and decide who was going to give up what to allow in another elevator because it was "good" for them all. FFS.

We had another elevator built here. Driveway hours went from 8 to 5, to 7 to 7. All of a sudden they couldn't assume they had enough grain coming their way.

You should look at where that new elevator is going in Swift Current....East of the city just around the bend where the bus rolled decades ago ....there will have to be some major changes to make it safe to get access off the transcanada highway....its south of the railway overpass east of the city and between the swift current creek....