Interesting Arrangement

[farmaholic]

Is what you're saying, see a lawyer prenuptual before you see a marriage counsellor post-nuptual to try to save the farm....lol.

What you brought into it is yours and visa versa("home"stead I assume usually exempt unless stipulated(???---explain blackpowder) and then might need to be expensively defended in court), what comes after that magic date is always in question. Uneven contribution, family inheritance, using prenuptial assets to accumulate more wealth post-nuptual.....seems courts may not care and decide it's easier to cut it down the middle than determine the value of each party's contribution......even if it was grossly unfair!

[farmaholic]

Adult child inherits 4 quarters of land in 1985 worth about $200k from parents, after 35 years of marriage spouse goes splits-ville....land worth 1.6 million, now what? Doesn't matter if child is farming or not..... In this case it also doesn't matter much if the land was inherited pre or post marriage.....$200K difference, who has $700K to buy out the spouse.

[macdon02]

Adult child inherits 4 quarters of land in 1985 worth about $200k from parents, after 35 years of marriage spouse goes splits-ville....land worth 1.6 million, now what? Doesn't matter if child is farming or not..... In this case it also doesn't matter much if the land was inherited pre or post marriage.....$200K difference, who has $700K to buy out the spouse.

The only thing that would wreck it, is the entire gig blows up, meaning dollars buy more then it did 20 years ago. So if you can see 25 cent Big Macs coming back, it won't work. It's possible but today im gonna say no. Assets win, is the trend, why the poor stay poor and the rich get richer. A govt check will never lead you to riches.

[sumdumguy]

Cash is cold comfort but it is some comfort until Its pried out of your battered hide. 🤐

[AlbertaFarmer5]

I recently learned about Another tactic that has me puzzled.
Two different men have approached me about farm work, with the small issue that they each had no license. I assumed drunk driving, but no, they had their licenses taken away for not paying spousal or child support. Oh and they couldn't be paid above the table because it would all be garnished.

Now for all I know they could be the scum of the earth deadbeat dads who refused to fulfill their rightful obligations leaving their estranged families destitute, or they could also have been in the impossible position of having unrealistic support payments due to a big income drop.

Either way, taking away their means of transport, which they could otherwise use to commute to a job to make money to pay the support just seemed like a very odd motivator, or punishment. No way they will ever dig themselves out of the hole without a vehicle, and therefore a job. Doesn't seem like a very well thought out strategy, at least in rural areas.

[blackpowder]

Once a title is in the matrimonial property bed, joint, it's included in calculations. Parental gifting is then negotiable or lost entirely. Assets would be assessed the same as for an estate. It doesn't matter what you paid for that Berkshire stock, it's what it's worth on death day.
Value will be placed on years of marriage and wife's career path before marriage.
Use your head. I've seen a young widow force the parents to buy her out as her home was on the same property as her in-laws.
Think about the farm as a factory selling widgets. Who do you choose as legal partners. And how do you structure it.

There are deadbeats. But consider the welder making 150k in the patch.
The intention of the law is to maintain as if the home were intact.
Suddenly he's making 50. Is he proactive with his ex and his lawyer?
Does he stray from the court order immediately on his own or pay his lawyer $450 an hour to take months to change it.
Does he spend $5k to change it every time his work changes it or can he and his ex get along. Is he incorporated, or self employed. Now they can add all CCA back into income if they want.
I've had two forensic audits in the last 7 years just because the other lawyer wanted it.
Remember, this is all taxable for you, tax free for her. Line 150 if employee, assigned if self employed. Your Line 150 could say 55 and you pay based on 100+, depending on how they tear apart your books. Oh and the Section 7 expenses can bite hard if they structure that wrong.
Hypothetically, if your Line 150 were 80k and with two kids you'd have 40 ish left after support and taxes.
God help you if you're paying spousal too.
All support agreements must be signed by a judge. Can both lawyers agree to be retroactive? That works both ways, I've paid 3 yrs worth of top up retroactive. Or do you open your mouth and dig in your heels. Bear bait.
Doing nothing makes it worse. If the other lawyer wants to toy with you he will. I've been served on a Sunday night with a court day of Friday. That takes months to book by the way.
Judges are not good at math. And they're ruling which can take minutes is final. You do not want to go to court.
Lawyers will milk you, and they enjoy it if you're dumb.
Most but not all, men I've listened to with bad stories have not played the chess game they were given. Or got belligerent.
Life is hard and harder if your stupid. I'm not selling prenuptials as the be all and end all, ( funny, they're one of Trump's rules) but use your damn head, your not becoming a legal partnership with your mother.
If you're looking at divorce.
Go collaborative and go as fast as your ex will let you. Before she has time to think/stew. Or count.
Any questions just ask.

[farmaholic]

Separation and divorce supposedly a fairly common issue according to statistics but maybe not for rural farming couples? Not a very hot topic.

[blackpowder]

Farmer types rather stoic. Talk about it less. ??
Wienerville mostly dead pecker club anyway. ??
Younger farmers more world wise????

Myself, I wish I could write a pamphlet given out at all farm shows.

[Maver]

I've heard prenups become worthless with time. A judge will tear it up if the values that were used become to out dated and lopsided.

Spousal support payments are the ones that get me pissed off. She can decide to leave you but doesn't have to leave your income , WTF?

[blackpowder]

It's a legal partnership.
If there are big income differences before during or after. Precedence.
Also, if she gave up a good career or education for same.
Unwed cohabitation risk depends on the length of time and the mingling of finances and income.
Don't share toothbrushes or any expenses.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Lots of Good advice here. But for the most part preaching to the choir.

Where is the average young single man thinking with the wrong organ supposed to learn this information before it's too late? I can't see that fitting in with the PC school curriculum very well.

[Blaithin]

I’m not saying I agree with the split down the middle idea. There’s no reason a woman should marry into a farming family and be entitled to a half or even a quarter of assets. Prenups should be an absolute for everyone in my mind, no matter their careers.

BUT

If and when I were to get married, what’s expected? I have a job. I’m currently working towards my own acreage. I have a herd of cattle, a flock of chickens, a hassle of barn cats, etc. So I decide I want to spend my life with a man, now what?

I move.

Hopefully we’d work together to try and fit my life in with his but I still have a life’s worth of stuff. Something is going to give. I’ll lose possessions because they can’t all fit in one house. I may be moving far enough I can’t keep my job. Some, or all of, my animals may have to go. I may be even moving out of my local community where I know people and where my friends are.

The man is rarely the one, especially in farming scenarios, who disrupts his life and moves. Yeah it can be managed to rent out my place, or sell it. Yeah there’s ways to work it out. But it’s still an overwhelming scenario. I’m not sure men ever really think of that part. Even in a well oiled partnership, a woman is usually giving up a lot to get there, and not just monetary possessions.

Just apply it to yourselves right now. A quick what if scenario. What if you met someone and had to move to her, how much would you be giving up and relying on her.

Then there’s the awful situations of things going down the shitter. I’ve had friends on that precipice and the biggest thing that stops it, is how can they do it? They’re moms, they’ve had no job for years because they’re at home raising the kids. I don’t know their bank situations but even if stuff isn’t a joint account, they haven’t worked much, they have little to no money. How the heck can they leave?! What’s rent these days. What’s their vehicle and it’s payments. Who’s going to hire them, most employers don’t like big gaps in resumes, so they’re stuck at minimum wage. What’s the childcare costs. Sitting there trying to figure this stuff out is also hugely overwhelming.

A woman gives up a lot and then faces an enormous obstacle to leave if it comes down to that.

No, that doesn’t mean we are entitled to half of millions of dollars of assets, but we are usually the ones who have given up our life and shaped it to the man. Is it any wonder when faced with losing that relationship it’s called starting life over. Many of us need too.

Nobody wants to go into a relationship or marriage being pessimistic but there needs to be some reality. Separation is costly for both sides, no matter what.