Interesting Arrangement

[sumdumguy]

I once attended a lawyer presentation on succession. She gave us an example of an older couple with an adopted son. They owned land very near the city where they spent all their time. When the son got married, they turned the title over to the son. Well, his new wife grew bored of him very soon, chased the parents out, accused him of assault and sued for divorce. He was so despondent that he gave her the farm and left and the parents could never set foot on the farm again. Though that session was about 40 years ago, I never forgot the point of that example.

[blackpowder]

And sometimes it works fairly. Yes it can.

Second hand stories have less value.
Often the people in the most trouble at one point did more talking than listening.
And I've seen the wife get shafted too. Yup. Many scenarios. But if you are combative it will cost you more.
And then the guideline income for support can leave you breathless.
And then there's the lawyers who are just real SOBs.

Point is, I think today farmers in general are more informed.
If you're creating a new legal entity ( marriage), and share title on the old homestead, you're uneducated.

[farmaholic]

Is what you're saying, see a lawyer prenuptual before you see a marriage counsellor post-nuptual to try to save the farm....lol.

What you brought into it is yours and visa versa("home"stead I assume usually exempt unless stipulated(???---explain blackpowder) and then might need to be expensively defended in court), what comes after that magic date is always in question. Uneven contribution, family inheritance, using prenuptial assets to accumulate more wealth post-nuptual.....seems courts may not care and decide it's easier to cut it down the middle than determine the value of each party's contribution......even if it was grossly unfair!

[farmaholic]

Adult child inherits 4 quarters of land in 1985 worth about $200k from parents, after 35 years of marriage spouse goes splits-ville....land worth 1.6 million, now what? Doesn't matter if child is farming or not..... In this case it also doesn't matter much if the land was inherited pre or post marriage.....$200K difference, who has $700K to buy out the spouse.

[macdon02]

Adult child inherits 4 quarters of land in 1985 worth about $200k from parents, after 35 years of marriage spouse goes splits-ville....land worth 1.6 million, now what? Doesn't matter if child is farming or not..... In this case it also doesn't matter much if the land was inherited pre or post marriage.....$200K difference, who has $700K to buy out the spouse.

The only thing that would wreck it, is the entire gig blows up, meaning dollars buy more then it did 20 years ago. So if you can see 25 cent Big Macs coming back, it won't work. It's possible but today im gonna say no. Assets win, is the trend, why the poor stay poor and the rich get richer. A govt check will never lead you to riches.

[sumdumguy]

Cash is cold comfort but it is some comfort until Its pried out of your battered hide. 🤐

[AlbertaFarmer5]

I recently learned about Another tactic that has me puzzled.
Two different men have approached me about farm work, with the small issue that they each had no license. I assumed drunk driving, but no, they had their licenses taken away for not paying spousal or child support. Oh and they couldn't be paid above the table because it would all be garnished.

Now for all I know they could be the scum of the earth deadbeat dads who refused to fulfill their rightful obligations leaving their estranged families destitute, or they could also have been in the impossible position of having unrealistic support payments due to a big income drop.

Either way, taking away their means of transport, which they could otherwise use to commute to a job to make money to pay the support just seemed like a very odd motivator, or punishment. No way they will ever dig themselves out of the hole without a vehicle, and therefore a job. Doesn't seem like a very well thought out strategy, at least in rural areas.

[blackpowder]

Once a title is in the matrimonial property bed, joint, it's included in calculations. Parental gifting is then negotiable or lost entirely. Assets would be assessed the same as for an estate. It doesn't matter what you paid for that Berkshire stock, it's what it's worth on death day.
Value will be placed on years of marriage and wife's career path before marriage.
Use your head. I've seen a young widow force the parents to buy her out as her home was on the same property as her in-laws.
Think about the farm as a factory selling widgets. Who do you choose as legal partners. And how do you structure it.

There are deadbeats. But consider the welder making 150k in the patch.
The intention of the law is to maintain as if the home were intact.
Suddenly he's making 50. Is he proactive with his ex and his lawyer?
Does he stray from the court order immediately on his own or pay his lawyer $450 an hour to take months to change it.
Does he spend $5k to change it every time his work changes it or can he and his ex get along. Is he incorporated, or self employed. Now they can add all CCA back into income if they want.
I've had two forensic audits in the last 7 years just because the other lawyer wanted it.
Remember, this is all taxable for you, tax free for her. Line 150 if employee, assigned if self employed. Your Line 150 could say 55 and you pay based on 100+, depending on how they tear apart your books. Oh and the Section 7 expenses can bite hard if they structure that wrong.
Hypothetically, if your Line 150 were 80k and with two kids you'd have 40 ish left after support and taxes.
God help you if you're paying spousal too.
All support agreements must be signed by a judge. Can both lawyers agree to be retroactive? That works both ways, I've paid 3 yrs worth of top up retroactive. Or do you open your mouth and dig in your heels. Bear bait.
Doing nothing makes it worse. If the other lawyer wants to toy with you he will. I've been served on a Sunday night with a court day of Friday. That takes months to book by the way.
Judges are not good at math. And they're ruling which can take minutes is final. You do not want to go to court.
Lawyers will milk you, and they enjoy it if you're dumb.
Most but not all, men I've listened to with bad stories have not played the chess game they were given. Or got belligerent.
Life is hard and harder if your stupid. I'm not selling prenuptials as the be all and end all, ( funny, they're one of Trump's rules) but use your damn head, your not becoming a legal partnership with your mother.
If you're looking at divorce.
Go collaborative and go as fast as your ex will let you. Before she has time to think/stew. Or count.
Any questions just ask.

[farmaholic]

Separation and divorce supposedly a fairly common issue according to statistics but maybe not for rural farming couples? Not a very hot topic.

[blackpowder]

Farmer types rather stoic. Talk about it less. ??
Wienerville mostly dead pecker club anyway. ??
Younger farmers more world wise????

Myself, I wish I could write a pamphlet given out at all farm shows.