Beef Price Concerns

[TOM4CWB]

Cowman;

Clearly the same attitude that allow the CWB to do monopoly style marketing... allows Cargill and Tyson the same privilege.

If we don't have an effective ant-competition, anti-concentration, and anti-monopoly legislation in Canada... and COURTS who will be issue justice instead of "politically correct statements"

We are all in the same mess... CWB/Tyson or whoever is running the show!

How do we expect justice in a country, where justice is against the law?

[boone]

Cowman: Your point that justice is against the law, leads me to consider what would happen if you and Parsley farmed in Brazil or Argentina, I would bet that one or both of you would be leading the charge to form some collective bargaining power for you and your fellow growers. It is in every thread you post. And as Martha Stewart would say "That's A Good Thing". Till you feel that helplessness of being infinitesimal on the scale of consideration, you do not have the tools to decide. We are from a generation that has had much influence real or perceived. In a country that has championed for the general good. Let's tread lightly and carefully.

[boone]

cowman:Sorry about that last post was more directed to Tom4cwb, but anyone can buy in here.

[TOM4CWB]

Boone;

We as farmers are generally not putting our money where our mouth is...

We will spew platitudes about working together...

A million and one opportunities to work together, but do we, or will we?

If a business partner, any partner, takes the other partner's (in a partnership) for granted... and then covers up to continue the facade of deception... is the partnership going to last?

The CWB WILL be destroyed if they don't wake up and get honest with farmers.

Have you seen any CWB official documents that indicate anything but arrogance, deception, and a general lack of accountability?

Boone: CWB cash costs of marketing, (that we know about) not counting lost revenues from the election 02 pull back from the market, are over a dollar a bushel... and can be found in the CWB 02-03 financial statements.

Gone are the days when the CWB insults us with the claim of marketing costs of a dime a bushel.



Dairy producers had the world of value added at their finger tips, but could they manage it? NO, they sold out... the most co-operative minded of them all. ANd they sold out to a bunch of criminals (who were in charge) on top of it all.

The topic was an anti-competition investigation... of the beef industry...

If anyone anywhere has proof of collusion, fraud, unfair trade practices... PLEASE SPEAK UP!

Why shouldn't Canada do exactly what the US Attorney General did with Microsoft?

Or what US beef producers did with IBP, sued and won. 1.2 billion is the claim.

Boone if we don't have a justice system that will stop this monopoly behavior, how can we ever stop the abuse?

Worse yet is if no citizen of Canada even cares enough to try to stop this fraudulent behaviour, if it in fact exists.

[parsley]

boone,

I've been overlooking this thread; perhaps a subliminal urge caused me to click and read your comments.

I want to be clear about this boone.

I do not have a problem with collective bargaining that does not include forced players.

I have no problem with any marketing agency that does not force participation.

I have no problem with political parties that allow free participation

It's the mandatory aspect that I cannot agree with. In church, in state, in farmer organizations, in Kinsmen.

Anyone who advocates forced participation is someone I do not want as a business partner, as an MP, as my lawyer, as a mate, or as a close friend.

I may well lead the charge for collective bargaining, as you accuse:

"I would bet that one or both of you would be leading the charge to form some collective bargaining power for you and your fellow growers"

But only if there is VOLUNTARY PARTICIPATION.

The good thing is that you don't have to participate if you don't want to.

I basically don't agree with your approach of force, boone, but I don't want to beat you with a stick, or put you in jail if you don't come onside with my way of thinking.

That's the difference between you and I.

Would you use any means to make me think like you do? Jailing?

And the problem you have, as I sense it, is that you don't seem all that comfortable with your position.

Parsley

[boone]

Parsley: I don't know where you get the idea about Force being my m/o here. I am really interested in full naked disclosure, with what ever that involves, no more no less. And as me not being easy with my position, I'm quite sure if you read back you will see that I want a direct pricing relationship with MGE on a daily basis. I'm just saying for the time being it should be able to work through the board at a minimum cost. Tom I disagree, somewhat with growers readiness to collaborate, lately I've been impressed with some of the working together for common goals, Not only the lowest common denominator. Can't elaborate without sharing too much info.

[cowman]

Well parsley, you have got it! That is a very good philosophy for how to live your life!
All I am saying is you do have this organization that COULD be very effective at marketing grain? I mean they have the money, the contacts, supposedly some expertise? Now why couldn't this be a very effective marketer IF it wasn't compulsory?
And here is the problem. If the Canadian government finally decides"who needs this grief" and scraps the CWB you lose what could be a very heavy hitter in the grain business? That is why I wondered if it would be possible for the CWB to survive and prosper without a single desk? I know the "gospel" of the CWB says no, but why not?
Consider that the CWB would still have some definite advantages when it came to overseas markets(including the government loans)? But don't penalize the guy who found a market on his own.
Recently I heard that a major US brewer had looked seriously at setting up shop near Camrose. The deciding factor in not going ahead was the CWB single desk for malt! Now really we can't afford to lose opportunities like that over ideologies? If the CWB had been even able to make an exemption that would have been helpful? This country(and the local farmers) lost how much money and jobs because of that rigid attitude to the single desk?

[boone]

cowman: I believe Dominion Malts reasons were many and varied. The final nail seemed to be, they tied themselves to an area that has strong supply guarantee, Idaho(Irrig), and after 9-11 all bets were off. They in my estimation made a smart decision for themselves. They are on the inside of the 'Circled Wagons Syndrome' (border and food safety risks) Your labor pool is just to expensive, your population is driving land prices, your cattle were eating every stick of barley at the time. And fusarium was moving west with the feed grain. They will get your natural gas at less than cost. Pick a problem, Remember ADM owns decision making portion of that malt house. Unfurl a flag! Maybe open up a feedlot beside it?

[parsley]

My Coffee Break Rant

Cowman, only because the CWB is established and has staff with working knowledge of grain, does it hold some promise for what it can be. Not what it is.

Presently, the CWB works for Government, is a vehicle of Government. If it became a marketing tool for farmers,it could attain some success, relative to the participants who use it, but only if it makes bold and comprehensive changes.

The CWB can be so much more if they have willing participants. At present, who are their real supporters? Most wanting to make sound decisions, or who want to take responsibility for his planning don't want the CWB. Anyone can see that earnings from pooling returns is comical. Farmers make decisions based upon financial returns, and Cropduster shouldn't apologize for it if , as you question,cowman "I wonder why you decided to sell your calves last fall and therefore take part in the largesse of our provincial government?"his reason was cash. Cash is what we all want, and most folks think if they declare so, they appear greedy.

Our free enterprise system earns us on average of $21,000,/year. For the rest of the world, they earn $1,000.per year. I do not want to be in the latter.

boone talks like a victim, "Till you feel that helplessness of being infinitesimal on the scale of consideration, you do not have the tools to decide.", and he walks like a victim. His message is hang on to what we've got, put up with what we've got because I'm terrified of the alternative.

Like East Berliners, many still cling to the good old days of guaranteed bread and water sustinance. They never imagined there was gourmet food, they didn't work towards growing, marketing, distributing, cooking and eating gourmet food, They too had Boone's notion that they lived "In a country that has championed for the general good", unrealizing that common good doesn't include farmers anymore: that "common good" has been revised to include only the elite:for shippers, and governments and bureaucrats,etc.

The proof is in the cheque we receive, and that's why well paid researchers like Richard Gray never do an analysis on the bottom line of the farmer. boone still wants to cling to the Board,, "I'm just saying for the time being it should be able to work through the board at a minimum cost", without acknowledging it has sucked the money-blood out of every bloody forced participant in the West. That kind of "influence" is very real

Read your bottom line, Boone. You're $35 Million in the hole this year. And you want more of the same?

boone, You have all the skills and knowledge to create weath. Don't be afraid to plan how to give yourself some of those dividends. You deserve it boone. You've worked hard. Pay yourself. The Board won't.

Parsley

[boone]

Parsley: Geez, your tough, I felt so vile I went and washed up again. Then while I was there instead of a shave I just kept slapping myself. East Germany is being entrepeneured to death right now. It will go to the quick and the bent, history lesson review. Manage the pendulum, the higher it swings the further it will displace and dishearten.