Beef Price Concerns

[TOM4CWB]

Charlie;

I see this on DTN:

"IF YOU HAVE BEEF PRICE CONCERNS, FEDS WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU

Canada's competition watchdog is urging people with concerns about beef prices in the current mad cow crisis to step forward.

The Competition Bureau says people who have actual evidence or information that they can share are urged to call the bureau's toll free phone number at 1-800-348-5358 or contact its website at"
http://cb-bc.gc.ca/epic/internet/incb- bc.nsf/vwGeneratedInterE/Home

Is the Alberta Government still investigating this issue?

[Dyno]

It seems the extent of the AB governments investigation was asking the packers how much they needed, and should it be cash, cheque or credit card. What a sad demonstration of corporate greed and a right wing government's refusal to admit the painfully obvious, packers are screwing over rank and file beef producers for all they can, with the tacit support of politicals leaders. It is heartening to see that producers out west are planning local packing plants in SK, along with ethanol plants and not relying on big business or big government to make a big mess even messier!

[TOM4CWB]

Dyno;

If you owned a large beef processing facility, had no Alta government saftey net like Alta farmers have (the best in the west by a long shot) how would you react to the turmoil in the beef market over the last year?

Any person can start a packing plant... with no beef buy-back or license from the existing packing "monopoly" as you believe exists...

If the margins are so high, and things are so good... won't the small packer flourish and expand... to balance the industry?

Contracted production of finished cattle were generally working without losing much money...

Non Contracted Cattle feeders/farmers who speculated the US border would have opened up to Under 30 month old cattle in Jan of 04... would have appeared to have been briliant (and rich)... if the BSE case had not happened south of the 49th!

We need only to walk a day in our neighbours shoes, to understand what each one of us is responsible for in this life!

Your vigour and venom against the Alberta government tells a story... and attacks many hard working honest people who genuinely care for their neighbour!

All of our dreams can come true;

If we have the courage to pursue them.

Walt Disney

[cropduster]

Lots of people have lots of time to point fingers.Albertans like to `Do` things other than point fingers,generally.If we`ve made mistakes it`s because we tried to do something `better`.Whatever mistakes we`ve made, it seems to be less than other provincial political regimes in Canada,witness our population growth!

[boone]

cropduster: Were you speaking about that magnesium refinery at Highriver-Okotoks in the last string or Swan Hills- pcb incinerators, please clarify.

[cropduster]

I referring to Dyno`s string.Ralph is taking heat for where the cattle sub money went.I felt I had got some of that money when I sold my calves last fall.The hangers-on waiting for even more money in a `dysfunctional` market are crying the loudest because they misread what they believed to be `market` signals.I`m like Barbra Duckworth on CBC yesterday."We can`t spend our way out of this"

[cowman]

Cropduster: I wonder why you decided to sell your calves last fall and therefore take part in the largesse of our provincial government? I decided to hedge my bet by selling half into those "wonderful" fall prices and taking a "risk" on the rest. After all, weren't all our armchair experts telling us "He who owns the cattle, when the border opens, will make a killing"? Harlan Hughes for one?
Now suppose the Washington cow wasn't found and the border opened. The price would have gone through the roof and us guys who sold in the fall would have looked like idiots and probably be labelled "bad Managers"! Instead we are now "good managers" while the guys who held them are "bad managers"? I guess I'm a good/poor manager?
We hear all this talk about how all these new plants are going to be opening up. Take control of our own destiny kind of thing. I will bet you hardly any of them will survive once that border cracks open? Cargill and IBP are heavy weights and they don't like any competition. They will put the squeeze on and force out the new plants. Done it everywhere they go and a leopard doesn't change his spots!
You might think contracting cattle is a sure fire way to manage risk, and it might be in the short term. But when you are dealing with the "meat oligarchy" eventually you will be contracting for such a small profit that it isn't worthwhile(and if you complain you get blackballed). You grain boys might want to take note of how Cargill and Tyson operate in the beef industry because they are the same pirates you will be dealing with when you get the CWB scrapped?

[boone]

Cowman: Thanks for your generous viewpoint here but most of these ironjockeys think they have it sussed, until the auctioneer pulls in to the yard, they don't see this and they will share your days of anguish. May it happen when you and I don't care anymore. This isn't about I told you so. It's about wake up. Thanks!

[cropduster]

Well,Cowman,let me know how a beef marketing board would do better!!You have fallen into the trap of the CWB when you say `scrap the CWB`They use fear mongering to support themselves.Again ,I say, this is a dysfunctional market, so how is anyone to decide true market signals?

[cowman]

cropduster: I'm not in any way defending the CWB! It really doesn't concern me one way or the other. My crop share land grows three things. Feed barley, canola and occasionally CPS feed wheat. My cousin, who farms this land, refuses to grow anything where he has to deal with the wheat board(which I am in total ageement with). Malt might be nice if we didn't have to deal with CWB?
All I'm saying is perhaps(and that is a big perhaps) you guys who need to sell board type crops shouldn't be quite so eager to put yourself at the mercy of the pirates? Definitely get some changes into the CWB structure... but when that structure is gone it ain't EVER coming back? Is there no possible way you can salvage something good out of the CWB? Would it work if the single desk was gone?

[TOM4CWB]

Cowman;

Clearly the same attitude that allow the CWB to do monopoly style marketing... allows Cargill and Tyson the same privilege.

If we don't have an effective ant-competition, anti-concentration, and anti-monopoly legislation in Canada... and COURTS who will be issue justice instead of "politically correct statements"

We are all in the same mess... CWB/Tyson or whoever is running the show!

How do we expect justice in a country, where justice is against the law?

[boone]

Cowman: Your point that justice is against the law, leads me to consider what would happen if you and Parsley farmed in Brazil or Argentina, I would bet that one or both of you would be leading the charge to form some collective bargaining power for you and your fellow growers. It is in every thread you post. And as Martha Stewart would say "That's A Good Thing". Till you feel that helplessness of being infinitesimal on the scale of consideration, you do not have the tools to decide. We are from a generation that has had much influence real or perceived. In a country that has championed for the general good. Let's tread lightly and carefully.

[boone]

cowman:Sorry about that last post was more directed to Tom4cwb, but anyone can buy in here.

[TOM4CWB]

Boone;

We as farmers are generally not putting our money where our mouth is...

We will spew platitudes about working together...

A million and one opportunities to work together, but do we, or will we?

If a business partner, any partner, takes the other partner's (in a partnership) for granted... and then covers up to continue the facade of deception... is the partnership going to last?

The CWB WILL be destroyed if they don't wake up and get honest with farmers.

Have you seen any CWB official documents that indicate anything but arrogance, deception, and a general lack of accountability?

Boone: CWB cash costs of marketing, (that we know about) not counting lost revenues from the election 02 pull back from the market, are over a dollar a bushel... and can be found in the CWB 02-03 financial statements.

Gone are the days when the CWB insults us with the claim of marketing costs of a dime a bushel.



Dairy producers had the world of value added at their finger tips, but could they manage it? NO, they sold out... the most co-operative minded of them all. ANd they sold out to a bunch of criminals (who were in charge) on top of it all.

The topic was an anti-competition investigation... of the beef industry...

If anyone anywhere has proof of collusion, fraud, unfair trade practices... PLEASE SPEAK UP!

Why shouldn't Canada do exactly what the US Attorney General did with Microsoft?

Or what US beef producers did with IBP, sued and won. 1.2 billion is the claim.

Boone if we don't have a justice system that will stop this monopoly behavior, how can we ever stop the abuse?

Worse yet is if no citizen of Canada even cares enough to try to stop this fraudulent behaviour, if it in fact exists.

[parsley]

boone,

I've been overlooking this thread; perhaps a subliminal urge caused me to click and read your comments.

I want to be clear about this boone.

I do not have a problem with collective bargaining that does not include forced players.

I have no problem with any marketing agency that does not force participation.

I have no problem with political parties that allow free participation

It's the mandatory aspect that I cannot agree with. In church, in state, in farmer organizations, in Kinsmen.

Anyone who advocates forced participation is someone I do not want as a business partner, as an MP, as my lawyer, as a mate, or as a close friend.

I may well lead the charge for collective bargaining, as you accuse:

"I would bet that one or both of you would be leading the charge to form some collective bargaining power for you and your fellow growers"

But only if there is VOLUNTARY PARTICIPATION.

The good thing is that you don't have to participate if you don't want to.

I basically don't agree with your approach of force, boone, but I don't want to beat you with a stick, or put you in jail if you don't come onside with my way of thinking.

That's the difference between you and I.

Would you use any means to make me think like you do? Jailing?

And the problem you have, as I sense it, is that you don't seem all that comfortable with your position.

Parsley