Farm Solar Scam

[AlbertaFarmer5]

So now I'm a soot based life form. Who knew

Now just wait until your wife finds out That you gave her an Engagement ring made of pure soot.
Does anyone else want to volunteer to teach Chuck chemistry? At least some very simple concepts such as the difference between a molecule and element? It looks like I am going to have my hands full explaining the law of holes, Judging by the increasing depth of his hole so far today.

[tweety]

In 1977 the price of solar photovoltaic cells was $77 for just one watt of power. Today, it’s around $0.13 per watt, or about 600 times less. The cost has generally been following Swanson’s Law, which states that the price of solar drops by 20% for every doubling of shipped product.

CPV panels cost today around 5000$ for a 6 kw. People get ****d on installation costs, that is where the money is for companies.

But none of that matters unless you are completely off the grid because the majority of the cost is not electricity, its distribution and fixed generation costs even if you use no power.

If you used no power from your utility, your bill should be zero, but we all know exactly why that isn't the case. It's not that solar is a scam, what the scam is is your power bill and how you pay for power.

[LEP]

In 1977 the price of solar photovoltaic cells was $77 for just one watt of power. Today, it’s around $0.13 per watt, or about 600 times less. The cost has generally been following Swanson’s Law, which states that the price of solar drops by 20% for every doubling of shipped product.

CPV panels cost today around 5000$ for a 6 kw. People get ****d on installation costs, that is where the money is for companies.

But none of that matters unless you are completely off the grid because the majority of the cost is not electricity, its distribution and fixed generation costs even if you use no power.

If you used no power from your utility, your bill should be zero, but we all know exactly why that isn't the case. It's not that solar is a scam, what the scam is is your power bill and how you pay for power.

True but if you are really worried about it and all in on solar, disconnect from the grid.

Poof, no more bills.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

And, coincidentally, the more unreliables that get added to the grid, the higher the fixed costs go up, every single time.

[tweety]

True but if you are really worried about it and all in on solar, disconnect from the grid.

Poof, no more bills.

Talk about completely missing the point. Do i have a pipeline line item and refinery line item monthly if i buy no diesel?

Power should be priced based on use, no power used, no cost. Around here that cost is about 35 cents per kwh. Solar can easily compete with that. That is the scam. And that is what makes renewable energy almost impossible to incorporate along side the grid.

Make that one little legislative change and there will be solar/wind/fuel cell/microturbines everywhere.

Take a look at your power bill, mine shows 150 for distribution, 30 for actual power. If i used 5$ in power the distribution is still 150. Actual power cost, 33 cents per kwh.

[Hamloc]

Talk about completely missing the point. Do i have a pipeline line item and refinery line item monthly if i buy no diesel?

Power should be priced based on use, no power used, no cost. Around here that cost is about 35 cents per kwh. Solar can easily compete with that. That is the scam. And that is what makes renewable energy almost impossible to incorporate along side the grid.

Make that one little legislative change and there will be solar/wind/fuel cell/microturbines everywhere.

Take a look at your power bill, mine shows 150 for distribution, 30 for actual power. If i used 5$ in power the distribution is still 150. Actual power cost, 33 cents per kwh.

I certainly agree that in Alberta my distribution costs are higher than my power. I pay 6.8 cents for power, my total cost works out to 20 cents a kwh. Now if I install a grid tie solar system I am payed 6.8 cents a kwh for the power I sell back to the grid. So if I install a net zero solar system for my farm it would be roughly a 14000 watt system. A ground mount makes more sense to me as it would be easier to adjust the panel angles seasonally. Total installed price last time I priced it $3 a watt or $42000. This system will produce roughly 18000 kWh of electricity per year, at 6.8 cents a kWh that is $1224 a year. 42000/1224=34 years, that doesn’t make much sense or cents to me!!!

[biglentil]

Solar is a rather poor investment until inflation is factored in. The economics get much better when you consider that electricity costs will likely be multiples higher 5 to 10 years from now. Its a nice hedge against inflation imo.

[ALBERTAFARMER4]

I priced out a system recently. 17KW DC/15KW AC at $1.43/watt (modules, wiring, inverter, and racking). Plan on doing it myself so labour costs shouldn't be too bad.

I used to really want to go off grid until I realize that being off grid is a huge disadvantage. All surplus power in an off grid system is waste.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Solar is a rather poor investment until inflation is factored in. The economics get much better when you consider that electricity costs will likely be multiples higher 5 to 10 years from now. Its a nice hedge against inflation imo.

Yes, as Chuck keeps reminding us, the economics will only get much better in the future, as more unreliables are added to the grid, both the fixed, and the generation costs will increase out of all proportion to even inflation. One of the few things he gets right. Just look to California, or Australia for an example.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

I priced out a system recently. 17KW DC/15KW AC at $1.43/watt (modules, wiring, inverter, and racking). Plan on doing it myself so labour costs shouldn't be too bad.

Have you looked into using your Tesla battery as storage? Would that improve the economics?

[Oliver88]

I priced out a system recently. 17KW DC/15KW AC at $1.43/watt (modules, wiring, inverter, and racking). Plan on doing it myself so labour costs shouldn't be too bad.

$24,310 + your labour?
You will be able to run 5 HP aeration fans only when it is sunny out?

[ALBERTAFARMER4]

Have you looked into using your Tesla battery as storage? Would that improve the economics?

Vehicle to grid (v2g) is not available for Tesla vehicles. I think Nissan Leaf has this capability. It's in the future once EV batteries can have a million mile life (Sept 22 of this year).

[ALBERTAFARMER4]

$24,310 + your labour?
You will be able to run 5 HP aeration fans only when it is sunny out?

$21,800, I calculated the cost per watt on the AC power because that is what you actually use. This system will be for our house and will displace the annual energy used by the house and charging 2 cars.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

$21,800, I calculated the cost per watt on the AC power because that is what you actually use. This system will be for our house and will displace the annual energy used by the house and charging 2 cars.

Charging EV's with solar actually makes a lot of sense, at least in your case, as a farmer, your vehicles likely sit at home unused during the sunny part of the day. You can use the power while it is being produced, instead of selling the excess into the midday glut when solar is at its peak, and inevitably, smart meters will punish grid tied systems like Chuck's.

How those economics, and logistics will work for the average 9-5 er is not so certain.

[ALBERTAFARMER4]

Charging EV's with solar actually makes a lot of sense, at least in your case, as a farmer, your vehicles likely sit at home unused during the sunny part of the day. You can use the power while it is being produced, instead of selling the excess into the midday glut when solar is at its peak, and inevitably, smart meters will punish grid tied systems like Chuck's.

How those economics, and logistics will work for the average 9-5 er is not so certain.

Agreed. Solar may not be a good use of capital depending on your location or needs. That is why it’s critical to do the math. In Alberta we have no time of use billing so it doesn’t matter when you buy or sell.